Adams and the "average industrial wage"

Seánod

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meriwether said:
Anyhow, SF's little AIW theory has been shown up to be false and a fraud, so Im happy.
Any other business?

It has not been shown to be false and a fraud. What has been shown is that there are questions to be answered as to exactly how it applies to Gerry Adams. It should also be said, that if he were in Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael, he would be both claiming the FULL elected salary PLUS the income from the books. The fact that he at least only claims the AIW from his elected position is still a positive thing for me.

I would be interested to know how much is made from the books, and if this is all his personal wealth. I bought his last book, which to be honest was like an amalgamation of all Factual's posts on politics.ie between two covers. Is Factual Gerry Adams? :lol:

But the vast majority of Sinn Féin elected representatives do come under the AIW policy, both in word and in deed. It is a good policy, and is definitely a way of ensuring that they keep in touch with their support base.
 


meriwether

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But the vast majority of Sinn Féin elected representatives do come under the AIW policy, both in word and in deed
But its not a rule. You dont have to live on the AIW, if you happen to have a second income. And thats the point Im afraid. Its simply not a rule that SF reps must live on the AIW, and that is that.
 

doheochai

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Actually there are two specific points here:

1. Any SF public representative that has more than one income is not acting as a full time public representative. Now there is nothing wrong with this, most other TD's do it all the time. However, I believe, if SF claim to be representing working class people, the onus is on SF TD's to declare this prior to standing for election.

2. It is now clear that SF TD's keep ALL the expenses received from the Dail without outlining how this money is spent (or even if it all is). This actually indicates that SF TD's 'draw' the AIW from the party and also have access to substantial other income as a result of their expenses as well.
 

feistyfawn

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But its not a rule. You dont have to live on the AIW, if you happen to have a second income. And thats the point Im afraid. Its simply not a rule that SF reps must live on the AIW, and that is that.
Hi Meri, I have read a lot of your posts over the last couple of days. The more I read the more it's becoming clear to me that you just don't get it. You need to try to listen to what people are saying.

The real point is that MOST Sinn Fein politicians are actually earning the average industrial wage. Other politicians that you seem to advocate tend to be the type of people that have self motivated interests at heart rather than national ones.

You and people like you are the reason that this country is in the state it is in right now. Well done.
 

ocoonassa

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The real point is that MOST Sinn Fein politicians are actually earning the average industrial wage.
No they are not. People should stop saying that it's misleading and so makes people think Shinners are being deceptive.

They are earning the full wage of a TD from the State.

They draw an allowance from that wage equal to the AIW and the Party tells them how the remainder is spent.

What would be good would be if the Shinners joined up with TD Ming calling for an actual 50% cut in earnings to save the treasury around 10 million a year. Then they could still draw only the AIW from the €56k and use the remainder funding the Party or whatever it is they do with it.

I'd like to know why they've failed to pick up on this initiative, if they're genuine they could make alot of dinosaurs in the Dáil look like proper womens parts.
 

talala

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No they are not. People should stop saying that it's misleading and so makes people think Shinners are being deceptive.

They are earning the full wage of a TD from the State.

They draw an allowance from that wage equal to the AIW and the Party tells them how the remainder is spent.

What would be good would be if the Shinners joined up with TD Ming calling for an actual 50% cut in earnings to save the treasury around 10 million a year. Then they could still draw only the AIW from the €56k and use the remainder funding the Party or whatever it is they do with it.

I'd like to know why they've failed to pick up on this initiative, if they're genuine they could make alot of dinosaurs in the Dáil look like proper womens parts.
They've already said that they're going to bring in a bill within 100 days which, if enacted, will reduce TD and Ministerial pay considerably. 40% i think.
 

ocoonassa

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They've already said that they're going to bring in a bill within 100 days which, if enacted, will reduce TD and Ministerial pay considerably. 40% i think.
Not quite, I've heard Adams said the Shinners will cut ministerial salaries by 40 per cent and TD salaries by 20 per cent. He said that at the start of the month. I don't know when he said about taking up to three months to do it.

Luke 'Ming' Flanagan has called for a 50% cut in TD's salaries.

With the cut that Adams has proposed Irish TD's will still get a bigger wage than the Spanish Prime Minister. That can't be right. It would be good if the Shinners could ask to take less wages and save the taxpayer money.
 

Ramzi Nohra

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With the cut that Adams has proposed Irish TD's will still get a bigger wage than the Spanish Prime Minister. That can't be right. It would be good if the Shinners could ask to take less wages and save the taxpayer money.
Why cant it be right? I am not saying it IS right, but what if the Spanish Prime Minister is spectacularly underpaid?

There is a lot of debate in the UK about the British PM's "salary" and how it compares to senior public sector salaries. Such points are notably made by drooling imbeciles, ignoring the fact that the British PM gets a house, car, and is pretty much guaranteed to make millions from book sales, speaking tours etc. As well as that the same salary wouldnt get you a board member in a FTSE 250 company.

Again ocoonassa, I am not saying you are wrong here, just wondering about your thinking.

By the way, is Ming still pro-cannabis legalisation? Someone told me he had backtracked from that (which would be unfortunate)
 

Dáithí Ó

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This thread belong the the bitter begrudgers, leave them to it.

If anyone has any evidence of any elected impropriety by any SF elected rep (or indeed any other party rep) then they should take it to their local law enforcers.

Anonymously accusing people of the crimes suggested here is cowardly and pathetic.
 

ocoonassa

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Why cant it be right? I am not saying it IS right, but what if the Spanish Prime Minister is spectacularly underpaid?
Then they simply wouldn't be able to get people to do the job.

Spectacularly low paid vacancies don't get filled, that's how the labour market works. However there's no end of people to take the job of Spanish PM.

Therefore Gerry Adams suggesting that all our 166 TD's deserve to be paid more than him is plain wrong.
 

DeputyEdo

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Actually there are two specific points here:

1. Any SF public representative that has more than one income is not acting as a full time public representative. Now there is nothing wrong with this, most other TD's do it all the time. However, I believe, if SF claim to be representing working class people, the onus is on SF TD's to declare this prior to standing for election.

2. It is now clear that SF TD's keep ALL the expenses received from the Dail without outlining how this money is spent (or even if it all is). This actually indicates that SF TD's 'draw' the AIW from the party and also have access to substantial other income as a result of their expenses as well.
1) So working class people shouldn't have two jobs? If you look at the SF website it tells you what the members do i.e. Pearse Doherty is an engineer, John brady is a carpenter. If they can make money from these without it impacting on their performances, then let them do it.

2) You clearly have no idea how expenses work. It's not like it's extra money they get, they're getting back money they have spent out of their own pocket. There is no gain for anyone.
Here's an example: Gerry drives to Dublin and has to put €20 of petrol into his car. He then claims this back. So that works out as: Spent €20, recieved back in expenses €20. How much did Gerry make from that transaction?????
 
S

SeamusNapoleon

2) You clearly have no idea how expenses work. It's not like it's extra money they get, they're getting back money they have spent out of their own pocket. There is no gain for anyone.
So Callely needed to drive from Cork to Dublin everyday :eek:

I would say you know how expenses work in theory, but take absolutely zero account of the greed of people who are offered a chance to reclaim money they 'had' to spend...
 

ocoonassa

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I have books of blank receipts for sale if anybody is interested.
 

DeputyEdo

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So Callely needed to drive from Cork to Dublin everyday :eek:

I would say you know how expenses work in theory, but take absolutely zero account of the greed of people who are offered a chance to reclaim money they 'had' to spend...
So everyone should be tarred with the same brush? Just because Callely is a lying toad, all TDs are...or is it all people from Cork are?? :p
That's why the gravy train of getting expense without receipts has to stop.
 

laidback

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1)

2) You clearly have no idea how expenses work. It's not like it's extra money they get, they're getting back money they have spent out of their own pocket. There is no gain for anyone.
Here's an example: Gerry drives to Dublin and has to put €20 of petrol into his car. He then claims this back. So that works out as: Spent €20, recieved back in expenses €20. How much did Gerry make from that transaction?????

You dont understand how the Dail expenses system works. You are giving an example of how you think the travel expenses work but its quite different.

depending on where they live TDs are paid a round figure sum monthly that bears no relation to what they actually spend and they don't have to claim this money! Its €12000 pa for Dublin based deputies and almost €38,000 pa for Donegal, Kerry etc. A base in balbriggan or naas etc would get you €28,106 pa.

So TDs make a lot of tax free money from this system which they introduced last march. before that they put in claims based on civil service mileage rates for actual journeys and/or claimed a daily rate whichever suited them better.

It would be great if Gerry refused to accept this waste of taxpayers money and put in a monthly bill based on his actual petrol expenses. would shame the lot of them - correction very few of them as i think all parties have hard necks.
 

NewGoldDream

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If you look at the SF website it tells you what the members do i.e. Pearse Doherty is an engineer...
Is he?

Me too.

Well for clarifcation I watched a documentary about bulding those ice truck roads on Discovery the other night...
 

ocoonassa

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If they can make money from these without it impacting on their performances, then let them do it.
As the last few Governments have proven conclusively, they can't, so let's not.

If somebody takes the job of TD they shouldn't be moonlighting elsewhere and should give the job of public servant their undivided attention.
 

Ramzi Nohra

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Then they simply wouldn't be able to get people to do the job.

Spectacularly low paid vacancies don't get filled, that's how the labour market works. However there's no end of people to take the job of Spanish PM.

Therefore Gerry Adams suggesting that all our 166 TD's deserve to be paid more than him is plain wrong.
1) They either dont get filled or get filled, but by people who arent that good. The higher you pay in the labour market the better the quality you get

2) The point I was inarticulately trying to make was that with PMs there are other things they get which are not counted in with basic salary - the house and promise of further earnigns being the clearest ones, kudos of leading an entire nation etc which may not count for TDs

3) The Labour market for Spain is quite different from Ireland, so the Spanish PM marker is of limited value.

Basically, you're not comparing like for like here.

Which isnt to say they shouldnt get a pay cut, but I would question the real value of such a move. I would also think that being a TD is more complex and responsible than "the average industrial job". I am not saying the latter sort of job is easy etc, just saying that doesnt really compare to being a TD, if done properly.
 


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