Adams fighting back!

bradán feasa

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I want to see more of the old Gerry Adams, maybe this is a start?

Léargas

“This activist has no intention of resigning. There is much to be done. As citizens face greater economic punishment at the hands of an incompetent Dublin government and as rejectionists in the north gear up for more negativity our duty is face the future with confidence and to stand up for decent politics, fairness and equality. And a reunited Ireland. That is what leadership is about. The time for republican politics is now”.
 


adamirer

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what exactly is republican politics. The republic 'unite ireland' angle makes no diffetence to the economic punishment. There is Republicanism a la France, the American republicanism... so please, define what he means when the rhetoric is removed? When SF talk socialist republic.. what do you mean. We have socialist government (or had) all over western europe, I live in a Republic as it is.. what does he mean when he says that?
 
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LDF

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May 28, 2007
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I want to see more of the old Gerry Adams, maybe this is a start?

Léargas

“This activist has no intention of resigning. There is much to be done. As citizens face greater economic punishment at the hands of an incompetent Dublin government and as rejectionists in the north gear up for more negativity our duty is face the future with confidence and to stand up for decent politics, fairness and equality. And a reunited Ireland. That is what leadership is about. The time for republican politics is now”.
Stirring stuff..

To be honest i'd rather not take lessons in fairness, equality and decency from a Two Home Socialist who has waged war on this island for thirty years and whose most admirable achievement is that he belatedly waved the white flag in surrender.

If you believe that this nonsense will transform the prospects for sf in the Republic then you are sadly mistaken or deluded.
 

bradán feasa

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The republican view would be that partition of our island, our people, our economy, our markets etc has the effect of reducing opportunity and potential.

The republican view would also be that since partition conservative reactionary politicians have taken power in both states and that progressive republicans politics which played a pivotal part in the 1916, and tan war have not yet had played their part in government.

Also most of the people who argued against the war are now the same people who argue against our peaceful campaign for unity now saying that it’s not the right time, look at the economy etc. Why don’t the just come out and be honest the they are against full Irish independence and unity.

Adams:

“We are rebuked by some who say that this issue should not be raised in the midst of an economic crisis – we are told it’s not the right time.

But then when would be the right time?

The reality is that partition created two conservative states on the island of Ireland. Look at the history of discrimination and inequality and repression and poverty in the northern state! Look at the recent Ryan report and the manner in which successive Irish governments abdicated any responsibility for the welfare of children and young people to abusive systems in the southern state!

The social, political and economic impact of partition has been profound and despite the progress of recent times partition continues to cast a shadow over our affairs.

So now is exactly the right time to have the debate about Irish reunification”.
 

jdaly

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I want to see more of the old Gerry Adams, maybe this is a start?

Léargas

“This activist has no intention of resigning. There is much to be done. As citizens face greater economic punishment at the hands of an incompetent Dublin government and as rejectionists in the north gear up for more negativity our duty is face the future with confidence and to stand up for decent politics, fairness and equality. And a reunited Ireland. That is what leadership is about. The time for republican politics is now”.

"The time for republican politics is now." Why didn't he put that at the start of his piece and explain what it means? That would have made more sense than just complaining and saying that there are things wrong. We all know there are things wrong but Gerry doesn't even remotely address how to deal with them much less the fact that in the 6 counties his party implements Thatcherite policies while calling for socialism in the 26. Riding 2 horses still.
 

Rossa

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Thanks for that Bradan, agree totally with Adams' points. Whether you agree with Sinn Fein's position or not there should be a more positive promotion of unity among all nationalists and republicans.
 

adamirer

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"The time for republican politics is now." Why didn't he put that at the start of his piece and explain what it means? That would have made more sense than just complaining and saying that there are things wrong. We all know there are things wrong but Gerry doesn't even remotely address how to deal with them much less the fact that in the 6 counties his party implements Thatcherite policies while calling for socialism in the 26. Riding 2 horses still.
that was sort of where I was going, its rhetoric without direction. Its like me syaing, we're going to New York, and not remotly explaining where i get the money, how we get there etc.

What is Adams plan?
How does he proposed getting from here to there?
Republicanism is bandied about by different SF members at different times to mean different things, most notibly a recent thread about not wanting a 32 county ireland, but a socialst republic...

As far as I'm concerned, I live in a republic, the people here have rejected socialist parties for decades... what is Adams offering? Just theology about a United ireland with out any idea of how to deliver it, or at the very least, no idea he wishes to express to the public and his voter base, on how to deliver it.

He's an evangilist, nothing more.
While he babbles on about equality, fairness and other totally nice aspirational things, he might recall people vote for solutions, not ideologies.
 

Rossa

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that was sort of where I was going, its rhetoric without direction. Its like me syaing, we're going to New York, and not remotly explaining where i get the money, how we get there etc.

What is Adams plan?
How does he proposed getting from here to there?
Republicanism is bandied about by different SF members at different times to mean different things, most notibly a recent thread about not wanting a 32 county ireland, but a socialst republic...

As far as I'm concerned, I live in a republic, the people here have rejected socialist parties for decades... what is Adams offering? Just theology about a United ireland with out any idea of how to deliver it, or at the very least, no idea he wishes to express to the public and his voter base, on how to deliver it.

He's an evangilist, nothing more.
While he babbles on about equality, fairness and other totally nice aspirational things, he might recall people vote for solutions, not ideologies.
Yeah, there's not much meat to the bones of how to get a United Ireland and I don't think Gerry is claiming he has all the answers. It's obviously going to be a complicated and long journey to get to a UI. It's not going to be achieved by just Sinn Fein so I think it's a bit daft to expect some sort of step by step by Gerry Adams. It's a start, to raise the social conscience of unity of people on the island and why we should thrieve for it. Because alot of people on the island have become apathetic towards it.

What I take from the recent speeches by Gerry and columns written by Sinn Fein members is that the party are to re-organise themselves after the peace settlement and focus on unity. It's all early days so we'll see what ideas, etc they have in the future.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

I want to see more of the old Gerry Adams, maybe this is a start?

Léargas

“This activist has no intention of resigning. There is much to be done. As citizens face greater economic punishment at the hands of an incompetent Dublin government and as rejectionists in the north gear up for more negativity our duty is face the future with confidence and to stand up for decent politics, fairness and equality. And a reunited Ireland. That is what leadership is about. The time for republican politics is now”.
I have to confess to a bit of a problem with that word - especially the re part
 

adamirer

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Yeah, there's not much meat to the bones of how to get a United Ireland and I don't think Gerry is claiming he has all the answers. It's obviously going to be a complicated and long journey to get to a UI. It's not going to be achieved by just Sinn Fein so I think it's a bit daft to expect some sort of step by step by Gerry Adams. It's a start, to raise the social conscience of unity of people on the island and why we should thrieve for it. Because alot of people on the island have become apathetic towards it.

What I take from the recent speeches by Gerry and columns written by Sinn Fein members is that the party are to re-organise themselves after the peace settlement and focus on unity. It's all early days so we'll see what ideas, etc they have in the future.
Not trying to bust your balls here, but c'mon, seriously!
Its hardly early days, SF have bene going down the 'peace' route for over a decade. Adams and co have bene going on about a united ireland by 2016 and making the usual noises. SF exists, primarily to bring about a United Ireland.

To suggest we'll see what ideas they come up with in the future on it is a very weak argument when thats the reason d'etre of the party!!!! FF, FG and (I think) Labour have both said they want a United ireland, but have said it'll be that comes about by a majority vote of people in NI voting for it, so at least they have a formal position on how they see it coming about - although its very much a long temr project.

SF want that project much sooner. Its unacceptable to say they have to formulate an idea of how to bring that about when thats their unque selling point! Surely they cant be that devoid of leadership that its just an ambling ship with weekly press releases saying, 'we're still republicans'?
 

adamirer

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Oh and I'd say the same to Eirigi... whats the plan? If you're just another set of socialist workers, protesting against everything but offering nothing then please f.o.

for the record, here's the ONLY way i see it coming about. Get friendly with the Unionist community (which mcGuinness is doing). Be upfront about it (which SF isn't). The only way the unionists community will tolerate being part of a 32 county ireland is

a) through adoption of the euro - a single currency will help ease away the border. This involves SF being more pro EU.
b) accept policing whole heartedly, embraces being a responsible government party. don't apologise for it. this is essential to.....
c) win Unionists minds over. The UK doesn't want Ni, it would send it off to the middle of the atlantic if it could. Play that up. Exploit it. Showcase what the NI costs the Uk government.. get kicked out of the UK :)
d) show the unionist community what a 32 ROI has to offer. Suggest constitutional amendments to give them special political leaverage for next 20 years, in the Seanad.

Theres just four things that need to be done. SF have to win the unionist opinion over if they ever want a 32 county country, its the only way.
 
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new jewell

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Feb 7, 2009
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T ferris and other PSF supporters have been discussing the direction the party is taking ,more to the left,more to the right? Are they to be social democratic ,democratic socialist or indeed revolutionary socialist.Well Gerry has given them their answer PSF is for" decent politics " theres the clarity we where all waiting for.
 

bradán feasa

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Feb 2, 2007
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101
What’s the plan? Are you serious its very obvious

1. Become the largest party in north
2. Build in the south until we are a major coalition partner
3. Build support for reunification through all parties and sectors including former unionists
4. Stitch the economies together
5. Allow northern elected reps attend the Dáil
6. Allow northerners votes for an all Ireland President
7. Hold a referendum
 

new jewell

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Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
407
What’s the plan? Are you serious its very obvious

1. Become the largest party in north
2. Build in the south until we are a major coalition partner
3. Build support for reunification through all parties and sectors including former unionists
4. Stitch the economies together
5. Allow northern elected reps attend the Dáil
6. Allow northerners votes for an all Ireland President
7. Hold a referendum
Again not a mention of politics,a united ireland is to be PSFs rallying cry to keep unity, old wine in old bottles
 

adamirer

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May 16, 2007
Messages
454
What’s the plan? Are you serious its very obvious

1. Become the largest party in north
2. Build in the south until we are a major coalition partner
3. Build support for reunification through all parties and sectors including former unionists
4. Stitch the economies together
5. Allow northern elected reps attend the Dáil
6. Allow northerners votes for an all Ireland President
7. Hold a referendum
Nothing obvious about it.
1. Becoming the largest party means nothing. SF having 35% the DUP 30% and UUP having 25% doesn't change anything. That a bragging right, nothing more.
2. could take decades and you're currently in quicksand...but ok... lets assume you get 15 TDs and become a player.
3. How? thats the exact point you are missing... HOW. Your hardly endearing yourselves now.
4. How? i thought SF (ROI) were against the euro... beside currency, how do you stitch them together?
5. Theres a viewing gallery. Theres 166 people elected here and policy is created by Gov and announced in the press.. the Dail is a shame now... why do you think that will make any difference? why do you think the unionists would be bothered?
6. There can't be an all ireland president, they are part of the UK and under the queen... how on earth you think this will win over the unionists is beyond me... There's also a constitution you'd need to amend and basically you'd section2 & 3'ing again
7. Hold a referendum... ok, thats the natural end product. But you haven't a prayer of winning it, and virtually nothing you suggested there will change unionist minds.

I'd advise you to go back to thr drawing board and stop thinking what SF would like, and start thinking how to bring a good portion of unionists over to your way of thinknig. You're not going to get that through symbolic but ineffectual gestures like you've suggested.

I'm actually astonished you actually think that will win over unionist thinking.
 

Wednesday

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4. How? i thought SF (ROI) were against the euro... beside currency, how do you stitch them together?
SF wants a 32 county currency democratically controlled by the Irish people, but until that's achievable it's better to have one non-democratic currency for the whole island than two for different parts of it. Hence it's been party policy for several years to support extension of the euro to the Six Counties. But only as an interim measure.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

SF wants a 32 county currency democratically controlled by the Irish people, but until that's achievable it's better to have one non-democratic currency for the whole island than two for different parts of it. Hence it's been party policy for several years to support extension of the euro to the Six Counties. But only as an interim measure.
Is that a vote for the euro or for sterling - I am presuming that you are rational enough not to be proposing some third currency !!
 

wysiwyg

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The problem with Gerry is.. Gerry doesn't realise that he has now become the problem
 


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