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Adolf Hitler: the IRA's part in his downfall:


pogo

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I have an obsessive/compulsive disorder.

Hopefully I'll be able to break it though.

Read the article.

It is (a) interesting and (b) reasonably objective.
 

mbari hogun

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An interesting article. Russell's case should serve as a reminder of what apolitical "anti-imperialism" results in.
 

smiffy

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mbari hogun said:
An interesting article. Russell's case should serve as a reminder of what apolitical "anti-imperialism" results in.
Not really. Firstly 'apolitical "anti-imperialism"' is a contradiction in terms. But that's just being picky.

However, I think it would be more accurate to say that Russell's case should serve as a reminder of what can happen when you focus on a single political issue without due regard to wider moral or political concerns.
 

mbari hogun

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That's exactly what I meant. By apolitical anti-imperialism, I mean the mindset that places anti-imperialism as a value above all others. The positions of fellow anti-imperialists do not matter, it's their resistance to "Empire" that is paramount. Hence the SWP's support of the Iraqi resistance, etc.

For this site, I'd say "Bogwarrior" is a good example of this tendency.
 

ireland2004

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oh good - a thread on this article all by itself...

Pogo can you clear this up?

ireland2004 wrote:
Not that I have ever actually commemorated him but how do you know he (Russell) was a racist and an anti-semite?

Pogo wrote:
I think game set and match to the anti-republicans ...........

and then I said to you:
I haven't read the entire article by Brian Hanley yet (as im going to bed soon) - but quickly skimmed over it and (apologies if I have missed it) I can't see anything that proves Russell to be an anti semite.
 

pogo

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No, there is nothing to say specifically that he was an anti-semite.

However someone in Germany in the late 30s, early 40s who was not anti-semetic would have felt rather uncomfortable, don't you think?

And would not, perhaps, have encouraged them to invade Ireland.

I once read the auto-biography of the man in charge of Auschwitz. He didn't specifically state that he disliked Jews. He just reluctantly did what he had to do .........
 

popper

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Hanley "writes", or used to write for Fourthwrite - the journal of republican dissidents. I wonder does he feel that he shares any of the responsibility for Omagh? He was/is also a supporter of Trotskyist groups. Does he share the blame for the atrocities committed by the Bolsheviks between 1917 and 1924?

Mind you, he displays unusually careerist acumen for a trot - he'll never be unemployed attacking republicans :D
 

woodie

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I'd seen that article and it shed light for me on the IRA's links with and attitude to Nazi Germany.

The key point is that while there were many in 1940s Ireland who were pro-German and anti-semitic, the IRA was the only organisation that sought and actively worked to bring about a Nazi invasion. Had this happened, there's no doubt that they would have fully collaborated, including in the Nazi extermination of the Jews, and they would probably have ended up as the main components of an Irish SS division on the Eastern Front.
 

padraig

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woodie said:
I'd seen that article and it shed light for me on the IRA's links with and attitude to Nazi Germany.

The key point is that while there were many in 1940s Ireland who were pro-German and anti-semitic, the IRA was the only organisation that sought and actively worked to bring about a Nazi invasion. Had this happened, there's no doubt that they would have fully collaborated, including in the Nazi extermination of the Jews, and they would probably have ended up as the main components of an Irish SS division on the Eastern Front.
Interesting viewpoint, if you choose to ignore the fact that it was the IRA that faught against the only pro-nazi group in Ireland at that time, the Blue Shirts.
 

watch-this-drive

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padraig said:
woodie said:
I'd seen that article and it shed light for me on the IRA's links with and attitude to Nazi Germany.

The key point is that while there were many in 1940s Ireland who were pro-German and anti-semitic, the IRA was the only organisation that sought and actively worked to bring about a Nazi invasion. Had this happened, there's no doubt that they would have fully collaborated, including in the Nazi extermination of the Jews, and they would probably have ended up as the main components of an Irish SS division on the Eastern Front.
Interesting viewpoint, if you choose to ignore the fact that it was the IRA that faught against the only pro-nazi group in Ireland at that time, the Blue Shirts.
What makes you believe the Blue Shirts were pro-Nazi?
 

woodie

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The main reason the IRA opposed the Blueshirts is not because they were fascists but because they were full of pro-treatites. The IRA-Blueshirt conflict was well over by WW2 and the Blueshirts were effectively a spent force by the mid-30s, so much so that the IRA offered O'Duffy, the former leader of the Blueshirts, a place in its leadership in the late-thirties. Have a look at Hanly's article.
 

cain1798

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woodie said:
Had this happened, there's no doubt that they would have fully collaborated, including in the Nazi extermination of the Jews, and they would probably have ended up as the main components of an Irish SS division on the Eastern Front.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh mercy, this is a classic for the cut and paste file.

Woodie, you're a gem.
 

popper

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"The key point is that while there were many in 1940s Ireland who were pro-German and anti-semitic, the IRA was the only organisation that sought and actively worked to bring about a Nazi invasion. Had this happened, there's no doubt that they would have fully collaborated, including in the Nazi extermination of the Jews, and they would probably have ended up as the main components of an Irish SS division on the Eastern Front."


Is that supposed to be an historical analyis? History is about what actually happened - not what might have happened. In fact that's the difference between history and talking shite in the pub.

In fact I must send History Ireland my seminal piece on "Who would have won the 2002 general elections if the Vikings had defeated Brian Boru at the Battle of Clontarf"
 

watch-this-drive

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popper said:
"The key point is that while there were many in 1940s Ireland who were pro-German and anti-semitic, the IRA was the only organisation that sought and actively worked to bring about a Nazi invasion. Had this happened, there's no doubt that they would have fully collaborated, including in the Nazi extermination of the Jews, and they would probably have ended up as the main components of an Irish SS division on the Eastern Front."


Is that supposed to be an historical analyis? History is about what actually happened - not what might have happened. In fact that's the difference between history and talking shite in the pub.

In fact I must send History Ireland my seminal piece on "Who would have won the 2002 general elections if the Vikings had defeated Brian Boru at the Battle of Clontarf"
Bjorn Borg?
 
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