• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

Africa CAN fix itself


FloatingVoterTralee

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
997
Most reports on Africa concentrate on war, famine, death and disease, and while that reflects reality to a certain extent, perhaps the West should trust the ability of the continent's regions to solve its own problems. Somalia had become a by-word for failed government and lawlessness, and while still recovering, an African Union force led by Kenya has defeated Islamic militias and gradually restoring centralised government. Similarly, with rebels in the Central African Republic on the brink of capturing the capital, Bangui, a multinational force from bordering countries mobilised and peace talks are under discussion. Economically, the continent now has a middle-class numbering similar to India's at 300m, and while the monetary level is low, as with South America, it is through taking responsibility for their own economies then overall prosperity will increase. As a BBC4 documentary on poverty highlighted, the emerging generation of African entrepreneurs and NGO chairpeople wish to self-manage their response, rather than what they regard as the neo-colonialism of dead aid, so perhaps the continent is better off left alone?
 

DavidCaldwell

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
3,981
Agree that there are good signs (very visible in Lagos today compared to ten years ago) and that this is important.
But the "left alone" should include encouraging increasing trade, university links, travel, tourism etc etc. I imagine you would agree.
 

Bonsai Experiment

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
14,042
From the OP you might be forgiven for thinking that the historical rape of Africa's resources and the current neocolonialist plunder is being carried out by people donating their second hand clothes to charity.
I fully admit people in the West are ignorant and agree that the whole "aid" mentality needs to be looked at in proper context.
But the problems in Africa aren't going to be fixed until the West, and China, stops interfering at every level in order to retain hold on the continent's minerals and resources.
 

greenwithirony

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
2,785
From the OP you might be forgiven for thinking that the historical rape of Africa's resources and the current neocolonialist plunder is being carried out by people donating their second hand clothes to charity.
I fully admit people in the West are ignorant and agree that the whole "aid" mentality needs to be looked at in proper context.
But the problems in Africa aren't going to be fixed until the West, and China, stops interfering at every level in order to retain hold on the continent's minerals and resources.
+1000.

'Transparency' hides Zambia's lost billions - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

African nations such as Zambia are often seen as grossly corrupt. Yet it is corporate tax "avoidance" on the part of mining companies that costs the nation hundreds of millions annually, while lining the pockets of middle-men in countries such as Switzerland. And the much-lauded Extractive Industry Transparency Initiative (EITI) may help - rather than hinder, this reality....

Glencore's lucrative policies
This type of corporate corruption - known as transfer mispricing, made headlines recently when a leaked report authored by Grant Thornton at the request of the Zambia Revenue Agency (ZRA) unpacked how the Glencore-controlled lucrative Mopani Copper Mines (MCM) - a company which declared no profits, was cheating the country's tax base of copper revenue.
The auditors disclosed that MCM tried "resisting the pilot audit at every stage", rendering them unable to access crucial data in many instances. MCM's chief executive, Emmanuel Mutati, claimed that the audit was not accurate, precisely because data was inaccurate. Yet Glencore, the world's largest commodity trader, controlling 50 per cent of the global copper market, is confident that MCM will be "exonerated".
In all probability, Glencore will be saying that transfer pricing is perfectly legal and central to trade. But the nature of "arms-length transfer pricing" within the current deregulated global financial architecture, enables multinationals (conducting as much as 60 per cent of global trade within - rather than between - corporations) to "self-regulate" pricing.
So, though pricing, in theory, is determined according to "market values", in reality, the "corporate veil" facilitates tremendous mispricing when subsidiaries of the same company trade with one another - the means through which Glencore allegedly purchased grade +1 copper well below market prices, with MCM allegedly preferring - all too often, the lowest price offered by a Glencore subsidiary, described by the audit as an act likely for buyers, not sellers, who would experience diminished profits....
allAfrica.com: Africa: The Vultures That Circle Continent's Economies

The Democratic Republic of Congo took a loan of $3.3 million from what was then Yugoslavia, to build power lines. This was sold to a vulture fund for an undisclosed sum. The fund is now suing the DRC for $100 million, after previous attempts to attach the DRC embassy in Washington DC failed.

It's not illegal, technically, but something about the practice smacks of profiteering, taking advantage of the world's poorest countries to turn a quick and disproportionately large profit. Many countries have made it impossible for vulture funds to obtain legal orders enforcing the practice, but loopholes in tax havens such as Jersey and the Isle of Man remain.
Western bankers and lawyers 'rob Africa of $150bn every year' | Money | The Observer

Africa kept destitute as western firms shift cash to tax havens
Nick Mathiason in Nairobi
Sunday January 21, 2007

More than $150bn a year is looted from Africa through tax avoidance by giant corporations and capital flight using 'a pinstripe infrastructure' of western banks, lawyers and accountants, according to the African Union.

This £75bn equivalent shortfall easily eclipses pledges made by leaders of the world's richest nations to increase aid and write off debt at the G8 summit in Gleneagles in 2005.

Such is the level of capital flight, revealed in studies by the African Union, that the poverty-stricken continent is now a net creditor to the rest of the world. It is estimated that about 30 per cent of sub-Saharan Africa's annual GDP has been moved to secretive tax havens, many under the jurisdiction of the British government.
 

southwestkerry

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
4,230
Just to add my two pennies worth, I wish all those white pillars off society here in Ireland who insist on going out their to build houses for them would stop. All that 'we white supreme Irish can build your a house, your black you cant do it yourself' attitude gets in my wick.
SwK
 

DavidCaldwell

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
3,981
Just to add my two pennies worth, I wish all those white pillars off society here in Ireland who insist on going out their to build houses for them would stop. All that 'we white supreme Irish can build your a house, your black you cant do it yourself' attitude gets in my wick.
SwK
My impression is that, providing things are peaceful, the more connections between people here and people there the better.

If the people going out to build a church do a good job, then it helps and the Africans will be copying them.

If they do a poor job, then it probably get some more Africans to say to themselves "Well, if these idiots can construct a rich country for themselves, it can't be so difficult. We can do it too."

And the people who went out will come back and know that poverty in Africa is not just numbers, but it is something affecting people they know, friends of theirs (or, at the very least, tea-drinking partners of theirs).
 

Truth.ie

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
28,077
From the OP you might be forgiven for thinking that the historical rape of Africa's resources and the current neocolonialist plunder is being carried out by people donating their second hand clothes to charity.
I fully admit people in the West are ignorant and agree that the whole "aid" mentality needs to be looked at in proper context.
But the problems in Africa aren't going to be fixed until the West, and China, stops interfering at every level in order to retain hold on the continent's minerals and resources.
From todays news.
Stealing from the poor to feed the rich.
PressTV - Turkey holds plane carrying 1.5 tons of gold to Dubai
 

Gurdiev

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
7,239
Most reports on Africa concentrate on war, famine, death and disease, and while that reflects reality to a certain extent, perhaps the West should trust the ability of the continent's regions to solve its own problems. Somalia had become a by-word for failed government and lawlessness, and while still recovering, an African Union force led by Kenya has defeated Islamic militias and gradually restoring centralised government. Similarly, with rebels in the Central African Republic on the brink of capturing the capital, Bangui, a multinational force from bordering countries mobilised and peace talks are under discussion. Economically, the continent now has a middle-class numbering similar to India's at 300m, and while the monetary level is low, as with South America, it is through taking responsibility for their own economies then overall prosperity will increase. As a BBC4 documentary on poverty highlighted, the emerging generation of African entrepreneurs and NGO chairpeople wish to self-manage their response, rather than what they regard as the neo-colonialism of dead aid, so perhaps the continent is better off left alone?
Completely agree.
 

General Urko

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
15,745
China is doing its level best to stop Africa developing!
 

greenwithirony

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
2,785
US CHINA EU..like a bunch of rapists jostling around their victim looking for a go before she dies or the law turns up.

The law...:confused:
Zambia Drops Case of Shooting by Chinese Mine Bosses

In what could be a politically explosive decision, prosecutors in Zambia have decided not to pursue a case against two Chinese supervisors who shot 13 coal miners last year during a wage protest, the managers’ lawyer said Monday.

The episode, which occurred at the Chinese-owned Collum Coal Mine on Oct. 15, was viewed as an outrage by many Zambians who resent the enormous economic influence China has over their country.
 

dunno

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
1,285
There is a great deal progress in Ghana, but that was always a good prospect. Even Nigeria, southern Nigeria is looking better. The overall growth statistics are very promising. That said, there are still too many instances where the government either negotiated risible terms with Chinese and Western mining companies, or the money is misused.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,035
US CHINA EU..like a bunch of rapists jostling around their victim looking for a go before she dies or the law turns up.

The law...:confused:
Rubbish. The EU and US have tried their best to help Africa. However you can bring ahorse to water..............
 

Morgellons

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
5,056
Good luck to Africa but what I want to know is can Europe fix itself?
 

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,340
Most reports on Africa concentrate on war, famine, death and disease, and while that reflects reality to a certain extent, perhaps the West should trust the ability of the continent's regions to solve its own problems. Somalia had become a by-word for failed government and lawlessness, and while still recovering, an African Union force led by Kenya has defeated Islamic militias and gradually restoring centralised government. Similarly, with rebels in the Central African Republic on the brink of capturing the capital, Bangui, a multinational force from bordering countries mobilised and peace talks are under discussion. Economically, the continent now has a middle-class numbering similar to India's at 300m, and while the monetary level is low, as with South America, it is through taking responsibility for their own economies then overall prosperity will increase. As a BBC4 documentary on poverty highlighted, the emerging generation of African entrepreneurs and NGO chairpeople wish to self-manage their response, rather than what they regard as the neo-colonialism of dead aid, so perhaps the continent is better off left alone?

But that would mean western mining companies etc would instead of working with despots and corrupt governments who provide the companies with cheap if not slave actual slave labour. Would actually have to work to the same standard of employee care that we enjoy here.

But yeah I agree they are of course capable and lucky for them they are sitting on one of the mineral richest land masses in the world.
 

Bonsai Experiment

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
14,042
Rubbish. The EU and US have tried their best to help Africa. However you can bring ahorse to water..............
grow up and get your head out of the spiderman annuals. There is a mountain of information available on the pillage of africa's resources, if you chose to ignore it and equate african's to dumb horses or animals that have to be trained to look out for their own families interests, then you need to look in the mirror.
 

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,340
Of course I should mention China when talking about unscrupulous manipulators.
 

Eire1976

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
14,190
Most reports on Africa concentrate on war, famine, death and disease, and while that reflects reality to a certain extent, perhaps the West should trust the ability of the continent's regions to solve its own problems. Somalia had become a by-word for failed government and lawlessness, and while still recovering, an African Union force led by Kenya has defeated Islamic militias and gradually restoring centralised government. Similarly, with rebels in the Central African Republic on the brink of capturing the capital, Bangui, a multinational force from bordering countries mobilised and peace talks are under discussion. Economically, the continent now has a middle-class numbering similar to India's at 300m, and while the monetary level is low, as with South America, it is through taking responsibility for their own economies then overall prosperity will increase. As a BBC4 documentary on poverty highlighted, the emerging generation of African entrepreneurs and NGO chairpeople wish to self-manage their response, rather than what they regard as the neo-colonialism of dead aid, so perhaps the continent is better off left alone?

They will prosper only through mass education backed up with real prospects there in Africa.

What does need to happen is these tin pot dictators need to be put in their place, that would be lending a real help to the people of Africa.

Couple this with special sea water desalination plants along the coastline and you can have arable land that would feed everyone.
 
Top