Alan Dukes: If Germany Is Daft Enough To Pay 100% Of Its Sovereign Debt Let Them Pay But We Can Default

elliebee

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The PIIGS standing together to defy the core with the threat of group default has always seemed logical ,the negotiations must be getting crucial when Dukes has thrown this in the mix . A more united stand by the peripheral nations would still work wonders especially as the trillion of liquidity created by Draghi runs into the sand .
In my opinion - not a snowballs chance in hell!
 


Beachcomber

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Alan Dukes Chairman of Anglo Irish Bank (IBRC ) and former leader of Fine Gael just came up with an novel and attractive proposal on Marian Finucane.

Here is the Dukes deal: Let all the Eurozone countries with a certain high debt to GDP ratio such as Ireland, Greece, Spain, Italy default on all its sovereign debt. And let the Germans pay 100% of their sovereign debt if they are daft enough to do so.

Is that a viable proposal by Alan Dukes?


It's "attractive" if your definition of attractive is sitting freezing to death in the dark with no food in the house.
 

LamportsEdge

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Alan Dukes will say nothing that would ever upset Goldman Sachs. He's one of Peter Sutherland's winged monkeys.
 

Mad as Fish

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It's "attractive" if your definition of attractive is sitting freezing to death in the dark with no food in the house.
There might be more folk doing just that at the moment than you would care to imagine.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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The PIIGS standing together to defy the core with the threat of group default has always seemed logical ,the negotiations must be getting crucial when Dukes has thrown this in the mix . A more united stand by the peripheral nations would still work wonders especially as the trillion of liquidity created by Draghi runs into the sand .
PIIGS united!
 

Lempo

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The PIIGS standing together to defy the core with the threat of group default has always seemed logical ,the negotiations must be getting crucial when Dukes has thrown this in the mix . A more united stand by the peripheral nations would still work wonders especially as the trillion of liquidity created by Draghi runs into the sand .
I'll guarantee you that would be a flag in the mast day in at least one of the AAA countries. :D
 

feargach

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So Dukes is suggesting that the PIIGS collapse the Euro, the EU and basically the World Economy. Interesting idea, I'll give him that.
Assuming they did, how long would it remain collapsed?

Argentina defaulted, and certainly the immediate months that followed could very fairly be described as "collapse" (although the lights and trains stayed running). But 12, 24 and 36 months later, was the Argentine economy still in collapse mode, or was it powering into big economic expansion and job creation?
 

wombat

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Assuming they did, how long would it remain collapsed?

Argentina defaulted, and certainly the immediate months that followed could very fairly be described as "collapse" (although the lights and trains stayed running). But 12, 24 and 36 months later, was the Argentine economy still in collapse mode, or was it powering into big economic expansion and job creation?
Its still a pretty grim place for those who can't leave.
 

Pat Gill

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Assuming they did, how long would it remain collapsed?

Argentina defaulted, and certainly the immediate months that followed could very fairly be described as "collapse" (although the lights and trains stayed running). But 12, 24 and 36 months later, was the Argentine economy still in collapse mode, or was it powering into big economic expansion and job creation?
Argentina has still not recovered from its default and neither has its citizens.
 

feargach

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Argentina has still not recovered from its default and neither has its citizens.
I may be splitting hairs here, but have you looked at what life was like in Argentina in the five years prior to the default?

It was horrible. Jobs were being lost in vast numbers every month, businesses were shrinking and closing down, all to please the IMF and its planners.

In the end, the decision came from an external source: Brazil devaulued its currency, and suddenly Argentine exporters found they were far too expensive for their Brazilian customers. They faced a choice of cutting prices, thus wiping out profits and inevitably defaulting on their corporate debts, or pressuring the government to devalue the peso.

Blaming the default is like blaming the amputation of a leg. The real issue wasn't the amputation, but the gangrene that made the amputation necessary.

Put it this way: today, Argentina is much better off than in the month before the default.

Do a simple thought experiment: put yourself in Presidents de la Rua and Duhalde's shoes. Given the circumstances they were in, what could they have done differently, that didn't involve default? You'll find that any other avenue would certainly have caused worse problems.
 

feargach

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Its still a pretty grim place for those who can't leave.
If it's so grim, why did President Fernandez get re-elected with such a thumping majority? It's not as if her voter base is rich people. Her lot (left-wing Peronist faction) get all their votes from the poorer areas. Rich people tend to vote for the Radical party (I know, it's weird).

Of course there are people who are very dissatisfied with her, for good reasons. But there is still a very large proportion of voters, who do not form Argentina's upper classes, who were happy enough to back her for a second term.

Also, I'm open to correction on this, but I've heard that a majority of Argentines are entitled to Italian citizenship. If so, most can leave if they want to.
 
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MaireadKelly1

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It's actually very worrying that Dukes would say this. A former Minister of Finance, a former leader of the main party in government and head of the "bad bank"; if this is off the cuff its grossly irresponsible loose talk but if he is putting something in play it would seem that there is some sort of crisis.
Dukes is well able to keep his mouth closed when it suits his
own interests, as we have seen in the past few days.
 

patslatt

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Kind of inevitable, considering the way the institutional state is still funding hundreds of useless quangos, semi-quangos, businesses. Plus NAMA. Plus Pillar Banks. Plus thousands of useless professionals on contract at extortionate fees.
Plus a civil service overpaid 40% plus in pay and pensions. Irish cs pay is about 48% higher than the private sector average,vs 8% to 13% higher in the UK and vs pay that is less than the private sector averages in France and Germany. The latter two think job security compensates for the lower pay. Now watch for public sector trolls to come on and claim the figures are lies despite the fact that the figures are based on government department CSO statistics for Ireland.
 

SPN

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If it's so grim, why did President Fernandez get re-elected with such a thumping majority? It's not as if her voter base is rich people. Her lot (left-wing Peronist faction) get all their votes from the poorer areas. Rich people tend to vote for the Radical party (I know, it's weird).
Same way that Fianna Fail used to do it. They throw out sweeteners to certain parts of the voter base to get their votes (cheaply) and then rape the rest of the economy to pay for it (and, more importantly, to feather their own nests).




Of course there are people who are very dissatisfied with her, for good reasons. But there is still a very large proportion of voters, who do not form Argentina's upper classes, who were happy enough to back her for a second term.
The people who are dissatisfied are the people who create wealth which is then taken from them to suit the political (and financial) needs of the insiders.

Coming soon to this country whenever the interest bills for the PS bailout start falling due.




Also, I'm open to correction on this, but I've heard that a majority of Argentines are entitled to Italian citizenship. If so, most can leave if they want to.
This guy moved to Ireland.

SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA
 

Watcher2

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Alan Dukes Chairman of Anglo Irish Bank (IBRC ) and former leader of Fine Gael just came up with an novel and attractive proposal on Marian Finucane.

Here is the Dukes deal: Let all the Eurozone countries with a certain high debt to GDP ratio such as Ireland, Greece, Spain, Italy default on all its sovereign debt. And let the Germans pay 100% of their sovereign debt if they are daft enough to do so.

Is that a viable proposal by Alan Dukes?
Replace the word sovereign with bank and he could be on to something.
 

feargach

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The people who are dissatisfied are the people who create wealth which is then taken from them to suit the political (and financial) needs of the insiders.
The majority of Argentina's wealth comes from agricultural exports, not intellectual property. They can hardly consider Argentina's fertile soils, which were stolen off the natives by previous governments, to be the fruit of their own brilliance, any more than the pre-Parnell rack-renting landlords of Ireland could.

Argentina's "wealth creators", in reality plantation landlords, have an ugly history of supporting shockingly brutal repression of the poor, and Fernandez was roundly defeated when she tried to impose a modest tax on their soybean cash crops. They've got a lot of pull in a society where their numbers are tiny.

This guy moved to Ireland.

SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA
 

Nemesiscorporation

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Alan Dukes Chairman of Anglo Irish Bank (IBRC ) and former leader of Fine Gael just came up with an novel and attractive proposal on Marian Finucane.

Here is the Dukes deal: Let all the Eurozone countries with a certain high debt to GDP ratio such as Ireland, Greece, Spain, Italy default on all its sovereign debt. And let the Germans pay 100% of their sovereign debt if they are daft enough to do so.

Is that a viable proposal by Alan Dukes?
Lesson number 2 in pissing off those who pay our bills.

Number one was the tapes.

Dukes is clearly playing the Goldman Sachs-JP Morgan bankster game at the expense of Ireland.

Dukes knows full well that Ireland is not allowed to default no matter what. Timothy Geightner made that very clear when he spelled it out on behalf of the US government. That means for those to stupid to realise, that if Ireland defaults we annoy the hell out of the USA, which would be the most stupid thing we could do.
 


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