Albert

thegeneral

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Apr 30, 2004
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156
I'll come back to that tomorrow Barry.
 


thegeneral

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2004
Messages
156
BarryW said:
Really?! I'd be interested to see any occasions where I've been shown up.
Its usually Rockofcashel and TlWhiskers who bear the brunt of it - but they're fair game, I admit......
Yanking the proverbial chain Barry. I know you get things right and that I do too but in future don't start a fact war with me as it brings out my cantankerous side as I warn people on the wiki (only in jest I stress).

thegeneral said:
This government saw FF under Haughey tackle the problems, which I'll admit were ignored from Feb-Dec 82, but you on the other hand won't admit FG and Labour ignored them from 81-82 and Dec 82-87. Was what was enacted by O'Hanlon as the Minister not what FG would have done Barry? Was it not correct
[quote:23uher5d]The only problem was that it was not what the people voteed for. Haughey lied to the electorate in a cynical attempt to grab power, and broke every promise he had made by making worse cuts than were being proposed by FG.

Please don't try to paint this period as a huge patriotic act on Haughey's behalf. He lied to the voters, and made irresponsible promises he knew he couldn't keep.
See regardless of the FF manifesto FF were heading into government. It was evident from early MRBI polls that the PDs were going to hurt FG in particular and that the Labour vote was in freefall. FF were bound to gain more seats and Haughey would have got a majority had he introduced vote management. Whatever about the manifesto the decision to bring MacSharry back from Brussels showed that he was serious about tackling the public finances and FF had committed themselves to reducing taxation from 1985 onwards.

Really? Wasn't Lynch booted out midstream, because of poor ratings??
Reynolds got the axe for a similar reason (but he provided a nice excuse for FF to give him the boot)
Well Lynch's authority was really humbled by St. Jim Gibshot (that's Gibbons) for the uninitiated who became the first Minister ever to vote against their government over Haughey's bill to legalise contraception in 79. Gibbons wasn't sacked by Lynch just as in 1970 when he decided not to sack him either because he was afraid of what songs St. Jim might sing. PD theology tells us otherwise but Gibbons' actions that escaped discipline encouraged McEllistrim and Loughnane to call Lynch a liar over the air corridor issue and led them to start to work for Haughey over fears that Colley would be the heir apparent given the then imminent retirement of a lame duck leader. While the 2 by-elections losses in Cork were the last hurrah or so to speak some suggest had Lynch gone to the people in 79 and not fought the by-elections he could have got back with a reduced majority and copperfastened the succession to Colley. I don't believe that though. The European Elections had seen FF get 39% of the vote as against 53-4% in 77.

Reynolds was a casualty of Ruairi Quinn's head fetish.

My point was about Bruton though who was shafted on the basis of (possibly faulty) opinion poll data rather than an actual election.

thegeneral said:
The important point you're overlooking is that the party's worst day was in a local and European election
Don't forget the trouncing in two bye-elections in safe FF constituencies (this was what did for Lynch in '79, remember....) - or the continued slide in the opinion polls since last March.
Well I wouldn't call Kildare safe FF territory. We lost every by-election during the 28th Dáil and still got back in though.

What possible basis do you have to say this? Can you give us any examples?
Oh I'm just stirring the pot but FG will have some dodgy conventions in the next while where the option of adding people on to the ticket may have to suffice rather than risk a possible independent candidacy. A number of these instances could spread the vote too thin. I'm just thinking off hand of say Wexford, Dublin NE, Dun Laoghaire, Limerick East, Longford/Westmeath and Roscommon/Sth Leitrim.

thegeneral said:
By the way of you think FF are short of canvassers you're an idiot and I doubt you've ever seen an FF canvass
Last May while canvassing in Limerick we met Jack Bourke, an ageing Councillor, not in good health, canvassing on his own. We were stunned to see it, but it highlighted one thing to me - that the FF membership in most of the country is very old and completely inactive.
Incidentally, Bourke lost half his votes to Fine Gael, and lost his seat to Labour.
I was referring to a general rather than a local election. I know FF councillors who canvass alone and head the poll, I even know one who doesn't canvass and still does it. In many local election campaigns the candidate prefers a family run campaign. I wouldn't count the Bourke example as a good benchmark. I met him when he was looking for a Senate vote and he was then one of the most cantankerous and obnoxious people you could meet, it wouldn't surprise me if he had no-one to canvass with.

Unless you're referring specifically to UCD then you're waaay wide of the mark.

What figures are you basing this on?
[/quote:23uher5d]

I remember the figures were posted as a news item from Ógra to the site, and they had figures as far as I recall.
 

DOD

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Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
642
BarryW said:
DOD said:
Yes, I would have a certain admiration for anyone involved in the arms trial issue. However, he didn't exactly kick up a fuss when that evil b-i-t-c-h was letting ten Irishmen die on hunger strike.
DOD - did you write Theresa Ferris' accepance speech by any chance?!

She thinks the State is to blame for daddy's unfortunate incarceration (and not his decision to become a terrorist)

And likewise, you seem to blame Mrs. Thatcher for the death of H-Block criminals (and not their decision to abstain from eating food)

Oh well !
One has to put up with such oddities in Shinner land i suppose!
I wouldn't expect a Fine Gaeler to understand any political issue more complex than the location of pot holes.

In 1974 (granted under a Labour government), the British Government took away political status. (you see Barry once upon a time, people actually had the cop on to realise that Republican and loyalist prisoners were political prisoners) A protest began in 1976, which later led to two hunger strikes. Having concluded that the hunger strike was the only available option, the prisoners effectively had no choice but to stick it out. Hence their fate was in Thatcher's hands.

All I can say Barry, is you are lucky you never had to endure real hardship and make difficult decisions, such as take second class citizenship, or join the IRA. Thankfully I didn't either, but I appreciate the bravery of IRA volunteers, particularly the hunger striker. Can you seriously name me one member of the Fine Gael party with the bravery and integrity of Laurence McKeown? As I expect you are too ignorant to know who Laurence was, let me fill you in. Laurence McKeown was on hunger strike for seventy days before it ended. Today he is a successful playwright and film maker. Reading his columns in Daily Ireland, it is clear that he is a deeply intelligent political commentator and has a humanity that is deeply contrasted with the 'criminal' label you so carelessly slap on him.
 

Catalpa

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Joined
Jun 10, 2004
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10,257
Always had a soft spot for Albert.

He came across well from his first day in the Dail. Wasn't he made a Minister straight away?

Was glad when he became Taoiseach. He was shafted by Labour in '94 then again when he wanted to run for President.

He handled the Northern Peace talks well. Pity it's all but collapsed now with little hope of recovery.

A pragmatic Conservative really, his C&W image was held against him which was stupid.

But that's a decade ago now and the Past is a different Country.
 

jo9jo

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Mar 25, 2011
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4,827
If things had turned out differently, Albert would have been the best president this dear auld isle had ever seen.
He would also have bagged the Nobel prize for peace.
What if?
 

President Bartlet

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Jun 17, 2006
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If things had turned out differently, Albert would have been the best president this dear auld isle had ever seen.
He would also have bagged the Nobel prize for peace.
What if?
+1
I can never forgive Ahern for shafting Albert for the presidency especially in favour of bloody McUseless. It sickens me how everyone bleats on about McUseless and her bridge building for the peace process when all it was was her hubby cavorting on the golf course with the UDA and her drinking coffee/tea with the bigoted Orange Order on the 12th of July - Albert did a lot of hard work in the early days of the peace process and without him there wouldnt have been an IRA ceasefire in 1994. A true peacemaker, not a fake one like McUseless and he would have made a fine President.
 

jo9jo

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Mar 25, 2011
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I think Albert and John Major are the forgotten men of the peace process.
Without them thefe would have been no peace.
 


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