Almost a third of applicants for symphysiotomy compensation 'did not undergo symphysiotomy'

Schuhart

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And, as we should be used to at this stage, the meeja haven't read the report and discovered the pertinent findings.
http://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/The-Surgical-Symphysiotomy-Ex-Gratia-Payment-Scheme-Report.pdf

No general pattern of immediate or developmental injury was seen. The evidence did not confirm that symphysiotomy inevitably leads to lifelong pain or disability or those symphysiotomy patients aged in a manner which was different to those of non-symphysiotomy women. The majority of applicants who underwent symphysiotomy made a good recovery and went on to have normal pregnancies and deliveries and to lead a full life. Most applicants had at least 4 normal deliveries after the symphysiotomy. <…>

Many applicants who did not undergo symphysiotomy provided statements of fairly harrowing memories of the operation and how their lives had been ruined, how they were unable to walk or take care of their babies, that they were incontinent, suffered prolapse of pelvic organs and had never recovered to this day. Much more concerning was that their claims of disability were supported by medical opinion.<…>

An extremely common memory was the hearing of the sound of a saw or seeing the doctor with a saw in his hands. No saw is used for symphysiotomy. The details contained in the personal statements of many applicants bore an uncanny resemblance to each other. That includes applicants who did not undergo symphysiotomy.<…>

Almost a third of applicants did not undergo symphysiotomy. This is a very significant number. <…> (185)<…>How could <…> so many other women wrongly believe that they had undergone this procedure with its highly publicised adverse effects?<…>

I must confess to a feeling of great sadness for those applicants who somehow believed that they were victims who had survived symphysiotomy only to learn that they were mistaken and that their recollections were based on error. Elderly women should not have to face such emotional turmoil. I have no doubt that some of them have spent good money presenting their claims which cannot be recouped. Those who have been active in representing themselves as victims to the media must now retrace their lives and must be understandably upset.
 


Texal Tom

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Libtards will not be happy... It was much worse and more brutal than was ever reported and many thousands suffered... The bishops actively took part by holding the saws
 

ger12

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Heard this on Newstalk, before the OP was posted.
 
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freewillie

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Obviously the records have been destroyed. Irish people particularly women wouldn't try to rip off the system
 

Shpake

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Not an expert and not a medical person, but this OP takes some believing.
What was it? holding down the woman and using some sort of a saw to cut through her pelvis..? Uncomfortable even remembering what I read those years back.
 

Schuhart

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blokesbloke

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Libtards will not be happy... It was much worse and more brutal than was ever reported and many thousands suffered... The bishops actively took part by holding the saws
You disgusting little person.
 

Schuhart

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Heard this on Newstalk, before the OP was posted.
What Newstalk are saying on their website is
Report on Ireland's record of symphysiotomies says

The now-banned practice effectively unhinged the pelvis.

It involved sawing open a woman's pelvic bone in certain complicated childbirth situations - causing intense pain and life-long complications.
As I pointed out, the Judge actually says
The evidence did not confirm that symphysiotomy inevitably leads to lifelong pain or disability or those symphysiotomy patients aged in a manner which was different to those of non-symphysiotomy women. The majority of applicants who underwent symphysiotomy made a good recovery and went on to have normal pregnancies and deliveries and to lead a full life. Most applicants had at least 4 normal deliveries after the symphysiotomy. <…>

An extremely common memory was the hearing of the sound of a saw or seeing the doctor with a saw in his hands. No saw is used for symphysiotomy. <...>
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Some balance


State apology: 399 women given up to



Marie O’Connor, spokesperson for Survivors of Symphysiotomy, described the grants as “an official whitewash”.
She added: “The Harding Clark Report on the government payment scheme is the third official whitewash report on symphysiotomy.
The scheme was designed to mask the mutilating nature of the operation. It was premised on the expeditious view that women’s injuries generally cleared up soon after having their pelvises broken"

She went on to say the scheme disproportionately favoured younger women, as older women’s doctors were more likely to be deceased and so evidence that they underwent the procedure is more 
difficult to obtain.
 

TakeitAll

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Obviously the records have been destroyed. Irish people particularly women wouldn't try to rip off the system
Really! There are a lot of chancers, both men & women, who will try anything to get a lump sum. Feel sorry for the real women victims of this butchery by the health service practitioners during those years.
 

Schuhart

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" if you believe everything you read you will eat all you see"

Any old saying in our part of the world.
That's pretty much what Judge Harding Clark is saying, while being enormously kind to a group of old women and giving them the benefit of the doubt for making claims that simply aren't backed up by the facts following detailed examination of every case.
 

Schuhart

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This report is brilliant. Basically, the Judge is saying she's given €34 million to the women concerned because that's what she was told to do, but she can't figure out why anyone saw a need.

Some more quotes from this exceptional report.

http://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/The-Surgical-Symphysiotomy-Ex-Gratia-Payment-Scheme-Report.pdf
I contacted the two urology experts who had been engaged by the HSE in Cork and Dublin in 2004 and 2005 to identify the medical needs of women who had undergone symphysiotomy. I was concerned at the lack of evidential support for so many claims of urinary incontinence to the Scheme and wondered if their experience had been different. Both experts informed that very few of the women who they saw actually suffered from incontinence. The women who did, were advised by them that as the condition first manifested decades after the symphysiotomy, it was associated with parity and age and not with symphysiotomy. The women who did have a degree of incontinence were referred to physiotherapy and pelvic floor exercises and did not require surgery.
A notable example was where an applicant was described as a woman so traumatised and damaged by the symphysiotomy which had caused her intractable incontinence, pain and social isolation that she endured it all in silence rather than overcome her pathological fear of doctors and seek medical help. Her own doctor’s records depicted an absolutely normal woman who worked outside the home, rode her bicycle to work and attended regularly with her GP for her own and her family’s everyday ailments.

Another notable case involved reports furnished by three different doctors who each attested to the horrors inflicted on the unfortunate patient by a symphysiotomy. However, no symphysiotomy had ever been performed.

A small number of doctors tried to help their patients by writing sympathetic reports at variance with their own contemporaneous records. On countless occasions, it seemed that once the symphysiotomy procedure was identified (usually in 2003/2004), new complaints previously absent from the records spanning decades were made and every health ailment was attributed to symphysiotomy. Again, this phenomenon was observed even where it was ultimately established that symphysiotomy played no role in the applicant’s complaints.
As the evidence to support most other claims was difficult to find or was even completely lacking, I found myself lowering the criteria for what constituted significant disability in order to help applicants over the line.

This is not what was expected. It was seriously perplexing that complaints made by or on behalf of so many applicants were simply not matched by the medical evidence. I wondered if there was any possiblity that our experience was non-representative of the actual facts because the patients with serious morbidities caused by symphysiotomy had either died or had chosen not come to the Scheme for redress.
 

SayItAintSo

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Peter Boylan on S O'R now discussing this. Boylan not surprised at 1/3 figure. Says he's not surprised some drs reports did not reflect medical records, that its all too common.
 

blokesbloke

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I'm astonished you profess to care about niceness.

Your post was utterly vile and well you know it.

If you don't want to be called out on it, don't publish it on a internet forum.

You should be utterly ashamed of yourself.
 

Orbit v2

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It's a very interesting report. I think it will make uncomfortable reading for those who made the most ghoulish claims eg that it was religious inspired, deliberate torture of women.
 


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