Alternative history. 36th & 16th Divisions

Oliver Cromwell McIvor

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Alan Alda

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Hmmm. Fascinating but possibly open to too much speculation.
Maybe a horrendous battering for the 16th would have led to skepticism/despair rather than some misplaced 'jingoism'.
 

Dearghoul

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They lost 3,900 of their 10, 000 or so strength between January and May 1916.

How much more horrendous could you envisage?

I'm not clear what the OP is driving at, or the article for that matter.
 

Catalpast

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Not so sure any of this would have made that much different back home

While the Somme and other battles were commemorated in Loyalist Ulster they were written out of historical memory in the South

- the men who died for the British were seen as a bunch of eejits

- a National Embarrassment no less and best forgotten.

That is the harsh reality of it TBH.
 

parentheses

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Irish Catholics mostly did not want to take part in the first World War.

It was remarked at the time that farmers' sons could not be induced to enlist for love nor money.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
What if Blucher hadn't arrived over the hill at Waterloo with his Prussians even for a few hours more at Waterloo?

It is entirely likely that Napoleon would have won by being able to take apart the forces ranged against him piecemeal, Wellington would likely have been captured and the political landscape of Europe would probably now be very different.

World Wars I and II might never have happened as Napoleon's armies would have kept the Prussian states from unifying with others and the rise of Germany as a nation. An accomodation between Paris and Washington would have seen Britain frozen out with losses of Mahon, Gibraltar and Med stations generally in due course.

Europe's history has sometimes hinged on very small levers. Matters of hours.
 

Herr Rommel

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Not so sure any of this would have made that much different back home

While the Somme and other battles were commemorated in Loyalist Ulster they were written out of historical memory in the South

- the men who died for the British were seen as a bunch of eejits

- a National Embarrassment no less and best forgotten.

That is the harsh reality of it TBH.
Traitors and idiots who fought for the empire while the real children of Ireland fought the most important battles back home.
 

Oliver Cromwell McIvor

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Irish Catholics mostly did not want to take part in the first World War. It was remarked at the time that farmers' sons could not be induced to enlist for love nor money.
Why did so many of them enlist so?
 

fifilawe

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What if the Nazis assembled the A-Bomb before the Americans?
What if the British did not crack the Enigma machine messaging system before 1950?
What if The Third Reich had reinforcements and extra battalions waiting in Normandy before D-Day?
The two most powerful 2 letter words in English are No & If
If only things were different ,history would have been different , It is a waste even to think like that and would just be rewriting history or a Work of fiction as it would be based on IF.
What if ape could talk, write?
what if there was an iceage? how would we cope? WHAT IF
 

between the bridges

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What if Blucher hadn't arrived over the hill at Waterloo with his Prussians even for a few hours more at Waterloo?

It is entirely likely that Napoleon would have won by being able to take apart the forces ranged against him piecemeal, Wellington would likely have been captured and the political landscape of Europe would probably now be very different.

World Wars I and II might never have happened as Napoleon's armies would have kept the Prussian states from unifying with others and the rise of Germany as a nation. An accomodation between Paris and Washington would have seen Britain frozen out with losses of Mahon, Gibraltar and Med stations generally in due course.

Europe's history has sometimes hinged on very small levers. Matters of hours.
Wellington had surveyed the ground months before the battle and had a fall back plan to a defensive line at the Sonian forest...
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Wellington had surveyed the ground months before the battle and had a fall back plan to a defensive line at the Sonian forest...
And he certainly was on the defensive and it was looking very creaky until Blucher put in an appearance. Napoleon knew the game was up at that point.

Wellington very nearly had a disaster in the early stages of that campaign around the splitting of his forces. Napoleon was a past master at dividing the opposition forces and carving them up with maneouvers followed by a slicing and dicing. He really was the most extraordinary tactician for the day and it took a hell of a lot of forces to combine to stop him.
 

between the bridges

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And he certainly was on the defensive and it was looking very creaky until Blucher put in an appearance. Napoleon knew the game was up at that point.

Wellington very nearly had a disaster in the early stages of that campaign around the splitting of his forces. Napoleon was a past master at dividing the opposition forces and carving them up with maneouvers followed by a slicing and dicing. He really was the most extraordinary tactician for the day and it took a hell of a lot of forces to combine to stop him.
Wellington only offered battle because he knew the Prussians were coming, his overall strategy was to remain in the field and delay Boney, the Russians and Austrians were also mobilised and half of France was rebelling. If Boney had won at Waterloo he would merely been delaying the inevitable, as for splitting forces Grouchy had a third of the French chasing shadows...
 

Skin the Goat

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Traitors and idiots who fought for the empire while the real children of Ireland fought the most important battles back home.
Yeah. Imagine Irish citizens expressing unquestioning loyalty to a foreign leader. :oops:
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Wellington only offered battle because he knew the Prussians were coming, his overall strategy was to remain in the field and delay Boney, the Russians and Austrians were also mobilised and half of France was rebelling. If Boney had won at Waterloo he would merely been delaying the inevitable, as for splitting forces Grouchy had a third of the French chasing shadows...
And it was a gamble. Wellington wasn't at all sure the Prussians would arrive and engage.
 

former wesleyan

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Aunt. Balls. Uncle .If.
 

between the bridges

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And it was a gamble. Wellington wasn't at all sure the Prussians would arrive and engage.
Wellington received and believed Von Bluchers assurances on the eve of the battle and his vanguard could be seen approaching hours before, at the end Boney was fighting on two fronts and had a third of his forces 30 miles away...
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Wellington received and believed Von Bluchers assurances on the eve of the battle and his vanguard could be seen approaching hours before, at the end Boney was fighting on two fronts and had a third of his forces 30 miles away...
Seems more like a Prussian victory then, wouldn't you agree? :)
 

between the bridges

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Seems more like a Prussian victory then, wouldn't you agree? :)
It always was an allied victory Wellington's force was Dutch, Belgium and British, let moi know if there's anything else ye need explained...
 


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