• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

American War Veterans : aftermath of the conflict.


gerhard dengler

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
47,550
If this thread is in the wrong place feel free to move it.


I don't know if the name of American Army veteran Tomas Young means anything to folk here.

The man enlisted with the armed forces after 9/11 attacks.
Young wanted to enlist to fight in the war in or against the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Instead of being sent to Afghanistan, Young found himself being deployed to Iraq to conflict he objected to.
He never fired a shot while in Iraq, he says.
He says that if he had been deployed to Afghanistan, he would have been prepared to fight and to open fire in that conflict.


Subsequently Young was victim to a snipers bullet in Iraq and as a result of this he was left paralysed.
In 2008, he suffered a pulmonary embolism and he health has rapidly deteriorated as a result and he is now near quadriplegic with on going health issues

After years of campaigning to oppose the Iraq war, Young has decided that he has enough and will refuse all medication and food and water so that he can die because he says that he is sick and tired.
Young says that he considers George Bush and Dick Cheney to be criminals.

Tomas Young, disabled veteran, tells audience he’ll commit suicide | The Ridgefield Press

Iraq war veteran preparing for death - World News | Latest International News Headlines | The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 30, 2013

On a separate issue, 22 American veterans attempt suicide per day.

The number of American war veterans who have been injured as a result of the conflicts number in the tens of thousands.
 


Jack Maher

Active member
Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
162
Arlington's Busy

Well you hardly recall that it's still going on
It's barely recounted in speech or in song
It's not very pleasant, so let's move along
Bring me a slice and a coke
And it doesn't seem real, is it fiction or fact?
'Til Johnny comes home with a hole in his back
And that doesn't last long
As he falls through the cracks
The crack in the great divide

And Arlington's busy and nobody cares
It's not really current, it's not our affair
It's distant, intangible and way over there
Under a foreign sun's glare
Under a foreign sun's glare
Arlington's busy
Arlington's busy and nobody, nobody cares
Nobody cares

While I was sleepwalking, someone got hit
Brought to the ground like a dog in a pit
Out in Afghanistan showing true grit
A replacement is heading his way
Funny I just didn't feel anything
But some slight discomfort this cold northern Spring
I need a new coat, I've got holes in this thing
The weather's been brutal this year

And Arlington's busy and nobody cares
We're looking at Tucson
When we look for crosshairs
But bullets are flying and we're not even scared
Every minute that we breathe
Every minute that we breathe
Arlington's busy
Arlington's busy and nobody, nobody sees
Nobody sees

Now the Rangers were out
Near the Pakistan line
In the Khost Province doing their time
When the second platoon took on enemy fire
And fell into the fog of war
Tillman got hit and went down like a stone
But they covered it up like a dog covering a bone
'Cause the top brass at home didn't want to admit
By friendly fire he was hit
Rumsfeld and McChrystal were in on the lie
The PR machine was in overdrive
But falsified statements
And a nice silver star
Doesn't do it justice by far

And Arlington's busy, yeah business is brisk
Not that you'd notice 'cause ignorance is bliss
Let's send thirty thousand more disposable souls
And pretend that it's making us free
And pretend that it's making us free
Arlington's busy
Arlington's busy and always, always will be
Always will be
Always will be

Graham Parker & The Rumour "Three Cords Good" 2012
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
19,087
My brother-in-law was in the US Marines in Iraq. When he came home he suffered from PTSD, night terrors, and his personality changed completely. Despite that, they tried to send him back there, and it took an intervention from a US Senator to stop it happening (he is fine now and studying to be a medic). The way that the veterans of the conflict were looked after upon return home was, and is, appalling.

More to the point, though, is I wonder how many disturbed or PTSD-suffering soldiers were sent back there - and what they might have done faced with innocent Iraqi civilians that they were too jumpy to distinguish from combatants.
 

Lonewolfe

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2011
Messages
17,467
My brother-in-law was in the US Marines in Iraq. When he came home he suffered from PTSD, night terrors, and his personality changed completely. Despite that, they tried to send him back there, and it took an intervention from a US Senator to stop it happening (he is fine now and studying to be a medic). The way that the veterans of the conflict were looked after upon return home was, and is, appalling.

More to the point, though, is I wonder how many disturbed or PTSD-suffering soldiers were sent back there - and what they might have done faced with innocent Iraqi civilians that they were too jumpy to distinguish from combatants.
Frightening to think. At one point they were even asking some vets out of retirement they were that short of personnel.
 

EUrJokingMeRight

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
11,838
I often imagine that being a war veteran, is a really nasty experience.

Especially when you figure out later in life that what you thought you were fighting for and what you ACTUALLY were fighting for, are two totally different things.
 

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
Saddam Hussein was a fascist dictator responsible for mass murder and crimes against humanity. He is dead and gone and Iraq has a democratic government and a chance at a future.
 

Sense 0f Wonder

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
2,508
I often imagine that being a war veteran, is a really nasty experience.

Especially when you figure out later in life that what you thought you were fighting for and what you ACTUALLY were fighting for, are two totally different things.
A lot of people figure it out while they are in the military. In fact, some of the most politically clued up people --and those most cynical about politicians and their motivations-- you will ever meet are military folk. Makes sense that they have some curiosity about why their lives are on the line, and who they are being asked to kill, and why.
 

Sense 0f Wonder

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
2,508
Saddam Hussein was a fascist dictator responsible for mass murder and crimes against humanity. He is dead and gone and Iraq has a democratic government and a chance at a future.
So you care more about Iraqi lives than you do about American lives? Are you an Arab nationalist of some description? :D
 

gerhard dengler

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
47,550
EUr: you make a very good point.

In Young's case even though he got deployed to Iraq he made the decision not to fire a single shot over there.
In many cases people enlist for many different reasons and those reasons presumably begin to crystallise.

Sense of Wonder : yes, former soldiers like John Kerry realised pretty quickly what the reality of political decisions meant for soldiers.

Whether one agrees or disagree with the wars, it would appear that you have a situation in America where there are people who have seen recent combat being discharged the military.
In many cases these people have been exposed to appalling experiences.

It is difficult for me to comprehend how anyone having had that exposure could adjust normally to civilian life afterward.
 

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
So you care more about Iraqi lives than you do about American lives? Are you an Arab nationalist of some description? :D
America lost more dead during the Battle of Iwo Jima. A bit of perspective is in order.
 
Last edited:

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
EUr: you make a very good point.

In Young's case even though he got deployed to Iraq he made the decision not to fire a single shot over there.
In many cases people enlist for many different reasons and those reasons presumably begin to crystallise.

Sense of Wonder : yes, former soldiers like John Kerry realised pretty quickly what the reality of political decisions meant for soldiers.

Whether one agrees or disagree with the wars, it would appear that you have a situation in America where there are people who have seen recent combat being discharged the military.
In many cases these people have been exposed to appalling experiences.

It is difficult for me to comprehend how anyone having had that exposure could adjust normally to civilian life afterward.
Some do and some don't.

Americans came home from WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam and they adjusted.

Why would these wars be any different?

When people come home physically or psychologically maimed that's what they signed up for.

They volunteered and this is what sacrifice, patriotism, duty, honor etc are all about.
 

EvotingMachine0197

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
8,629
My brother-in-law was in the US Marines in Iraq. When he came home he suffered from PTSD, night terrors, and his personality changed completely. Despite that, they tried to send him back there, and it took an intervention from a US Senator to stop it happening (he is fine now and studying to be a medic). The way that the veterans of the conflict were looked after upon return home was, and is, appalling.

More to the point, though, is I wonder how many disturbed or PTSD-suffering soldiers were sent back there - and what they might have done faced with innocent Iraqi civilians that they were too jumpy to distinguish from combatants.
Was your BiL involved in a particularly nasty episode? Or do all soldiers come home with some degree of PTSD?

We just watched Zero Dark Thirty a few nights ago, and while it is a movie, there is no doubt that there were American soldiers who had the incredible balls to carry out an operation like that.
 

Sense 0f Wonder

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
2,508
EUr: you make a very good point.

In Young's case even though he got deployed to Iraq her made the decision not to fire a single shot over there.
In many cases people enlist for many different reasons and those reasons presumably begin to crystallise.
I met an engineer who had been deployed to Iraq to help build and repair schools, hospitals, and other infrastructure.

Pretty soon after she got there however, the regular gunner in her unit fell ill and --because she had performed well in training and turned out to be a good shot on the ground-- she ended up being a gunner on an APC for the duration of her deployment.

She was so angry, frustrated and disappointed about her experience that she had plans to become a international human rights lawyer when she finished in the military. :)

But what baffled me was that she was heading back to Iraq a few weeks later and had no problem postponing her plans and suppressing her feelings until she completed her next tour of duty. What I learnt then, and from many military people since, is that when you have trained with a group of people for years on end and you go into a warzone with them, you are not fighting for an imperialist or a capitalist or a communist, you are actually fighting for your friends.

That politicians are happy to pervert and exploit this very virtuous and understandable bond that exists between people to get them to wage war is a travesty, IMO, especially when the pretext for war is slim as is often the case. Makes me sick.
 

Sense 0f Wonder

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
2,508
America lost more dead during the Battle of Iwo Jima. A bit of perspective is in order.
You are strangely unmoved by large-scale loss of American lives.

This leads me to believe that you are less a supporter of the U.S. than you are of war itself and the expression of military might.

Maybe I'm misjudging you, and apologies if I am, but if Tibet had the world's most powerful military it seems to me that you would cheerlead an full-scale invasion of Vietnam, China, and India by the Tibetan military just to see it in operation.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
19,087
Was your BiL involved in a particularly nasty episode? Or do all soldiers come home with some degree of PTSD?

We just watched Zero Dark Thirty a few nights ago, and while it is a movie, there is no doubt that there were American soldiers who had the incredible balls to carry out an operation like that.
He saw some bad stuff, people he served with killed. His job was mainly, as I understand it, working with Iraqi police, training them etc. I have never gone into detail with him about any of it and I doubt he'd want to talk about it all. Sometimes he starts talking unprompted though. I am friends with several former US troops, all really nice and gentle people, one or two of whom were badly screwed up when they came back - including one who lost both his legs (though most were fine). Interestingly, some of them think Bush and Cheney were morons and that the war was a bad idea.
 

cnocpm

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
4,841
You are strangely unmoved by large-scale loss of American lives.

This leads me to believe that you are less a supporter of the U.S. than you are of war itself and the expression of military might.

Maybe I'm misjudging you, and apologies if I am, but if Tibet had the world's most powerful military it seems to me that you would cheerlead an full-scale invasion of Vietnam, China, and India by the Tibetan military just to see it in operation.
Not only that ,but if he is as inclined as he usually is don't be surprised,to see a military blueprint showing a
Tibetan military pincer movement on India.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
19,087
Well now, here's a story that has relevance to this thread, but with something else extremely interesting too (the part in bold)..

The body of a former soldier lay undiscovered in a van parked at a pub for four months despite attempts by the landlord to have the vehicle removed.
Paul O'Brien, from Cambridge, who fought in the first Gulf War and served two tours in Northern Ireland, was found in the back of the vehicle after it was towed away by the council.
The 42-year-old, who once carried the body of his best friend for five miles after he was killed on a reconnaissance mission in Southern Ireland, has been described as a 'kind man.'

 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top