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An Bord Snip proposes cutting local government to just 22 Councils


kerrynorth

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Oct 5, 2005
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No sooner have we elected over 100 County, City and Town Councils than An Bord Snip proposes their virtual eradication - not that I disagree with them in the main. All Town and City Councils are to go with the exception of Dublin City Council. But it also proposes the merger of Sligo/Leitrim and Carlow/Kilkenny as single Councils. The last bit I would disagree with but I do think the number of Cllrs should be reduced to better reflect their population. This will be one of the more radical proposals that will cause controversy in the report.
Merger of local bodies and €1.5bn in welfare cuts proposed - The Irish Times - Thu, Jul 16, 2009
 


Gruffalo

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No sooner have we elected over 100 County, City and Town Councils than An Bord Snip proposes their virtual eradication - not that I disagree with them in the main. All Town and City Councils are to go with the exception of Dublin City Council. But it also proposes the merger of Sligo/Leitrim and Carlow/Kilkenny as single Councils. The last bit I would not disagree with but I so think the number of Cllrs should be reduced to better reflect their population. This will be one of the more radical proposals that will cause controversy in the report.
Merger of local bodies and €1.5bn in welfare cuts proposed - The Irish Times - Thu, Jul 16, 2009
It is sensible. Personally, I only see the need for one council in the midlands i.e. Laois, Offaly, Longford, Westmeath. We dont have the population to justify more than that.

Town councils are one of the most ridiculous wastes of money ever. In Offaly Tullamore, Edenderry and Birr have them but they are all only glorified villages.
 

stewiegriffin

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Its a sound idea . The situation in Limerick is a joke , with three councils covering one modest urban area . They should have one greater Limerick authority and scale back the shennanigans in Clare and county Limerick .
 

Cashel Hill

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Don't see why any county councils should be merged, bearing in mind this affects my own county, though the town councils can go I suppose, except in good-sized towns.
 

kerrynorth

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If this were implemented the jockeying for position for jobs where you will have 2 or 3 incumbents chasing one post will be a sight to behold.
 

Ah Well

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No sooner have we elected over 100 County, City and Town Councils than An Bord Snip proposes their virtual eradication - not that I disagree with them in the main. All Town and City Councils are to go with the exception of Dublin City Council. But it also proposes the merger of Sligo/Leitrim and Carlow/Kilkenny as single Councils. The last bit I would disagree with but I do think the number of Cllrs should be reduced to better reflect their population. This will be one of the more radical proposals that will cause controversy in the report.
Merger of local bodies and €1.5bn in welfare cuts proposed - The Irish Times - Thu, Jul 16, 2009
Makes somewhat sense to me from my prior Cork Local Gov Posts .... I personally think ALL Town Councils should disappear and the County Council structure be radically changed to allow for this, with an increase of County Cllrs if needs be proportionate to the population....

Simple local example;

LEA = Macroom Electoral Area (Cork)

4 County Cllrs (to cover the entire LEA incl the gi-normous sprawl that is Ballincollig)

9 Cllrs to cover Macroom Town Council

What a joke .... obvious solution is get rid of Macroom Town Council and increase the 4 County Cllrs if necessary to cover the entire LEA to include both the rural and the urban
 

SPN

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Lots of good stuff in there.

Most of it radical, some of it tough, but all of it needed.
 

slx

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Merging Cork City and County

I really don't see why Cork City and County would be merged, yet they are keeping no 4 Dublin local authorities which could be slimmed down to perhaps 2. The population stats simply do not add up.

Source 2006 Census:

Cork City and County represent 480,909 people
County : 361,776
City : 119,143

Dublin:

Fingal : 239813
Dublin City : 505739
South County Dublin : 246,919
Dun L / Rathdown : 193,688

You could merge South County Dublin and Dun L / Rathdown.
+ Fingal and the City Council.


Cork on the other hand could possibly do with a serious increase in the size of the city council i.e. taking in the entire city hinterland. Reduce the number of county councilors, and add a smaller number of city councilors.

As it stands, the County Council is duplicating (badly) many services which could be provided much more efficiently by the city council as it's all geared-up for urban activities.

The county council should really only be dealing with the genuine rural areas of County Cork, not the city's suburbs and immediate hinterland.

I'd propose creating Cork Metropolitian Area Council to run Cork City, Suburbs, the entire harbour area (including Cobh, Passagewest etc), south cork (including Carrigaline), Ballingcollig, Blarney, Glanmire, Middleton.. basically the entire area that is currently within the (021) telephone area code.

It could be an opportunity to slash costs, by removing duplication of services and seriously reducing admin overheads.

Also, slash the number of City / County councillors and create 2 positions of Mayor. Directly elected, with executive powers.

Cork Metro Area Mayor
Cork County Mayor.

I would see a major problem just merging the City and County Councils however as they have totally different issues. The County Council should really be doing rural affairs issues and the City/Metro Council - urban/suburban/commuter issues. Quite different constituencies!

Likewise in Dublin, mayor(s) could replace perhaps 50% of the councilors. Perhaps keep the existing councils bodies and just have executive, directly elected mayors. Although, I doubt you really need two south county Dublin councils, unless they perhaps merge one of them with 'near Wicklow' or 'Near Kildare'
 
Last edited:

kerrynorth

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Simple local example;

LEA = Macroom Electoral Area (Cork)

4 County Cllrs (to cover the entire LEA incl the gi-normous sprawl that is Ballincollig)

9 Cllrs to cover Macroom Town Council

What a joke .... obvious solution is get rid of Macroom Town Council and increase the 4 County Cllrs if necessary to cover the entire LEA to include both the rural and the urban
The County Council LEA already includes the Town Council population as well. I agree that the Town/County Council system is crazy with 2 separate administrations delivering separate services to the same area. Although in reality the Town Councils are virtual subsidiaries of their parent County Council delivering rates to the County Council through the County Demand.
 

Gruffalo

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If this were implemented the jockeying for position for jobs where you will have 2 or 3 incumbents chasing one post will be a sight to behold.
We could make some money by selling the tv rights.
 

asset test

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What do all the town councillors do for every little town in the land FGS?

More to the point, why do they do it!
 

TommyO'Brien

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If it has included the suggestion of merging local authorities for some counties together so that one local authority would serve 2 counties the report will end up making a very quick trip to the nearest bin. It would be political suicide to try it. The last thing the government would want, on top of everything else, is having entire local counties up in arms over being merged with somewhere else. If McCarthy suggested that then he was chronically dumb. It is the political equivalent of suggesting Ireland rejoin the UK - a suggestion that would kill the suggester's credibility stone dead.
 

W..R.H

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Exactly. MC carthy is being set up to be the fall guy. The government will declare the report unrealistic and impractical. It will say that the report was badly done and it needs to go back to the drawing board and distance itself from the report as a whole, highlighting areas such as this, while significantly ignoring a lot of other suggestions, delaying the process signifcantly, at least past Lisbon.
 

kerrynorth

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If it has included the suggestion of merging local authorities for some counties together so that one local authority would serve 2 counties the report will end up making a very quick trip to the nearest bin. It would be political suicide to try it. The last thing the government would want, on top of everything else, is having entire local counties up in arms over being merged with somewhere else. If McCarthy suggested that then he was chronically dumb. It is the political equivalent of suggesting Ireland rejoin the UK - a suggestion that would kill the suggester's credibility stone dead.
Would not disagree with that. But in his defence he may have been under the impression that it would not be published. However, it is akin to political hari kari to propose that two rival counties be merged together.
 

SamVimesBoots

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If it has included the suggestion of merging local authorities for some counties together so that one local authority would serve 2 counties the report will end up making a very quick trip to the nearest bin. It would be political suicide to try it. The last thing the government would want, on top of everything else, is having entire local counties up in arms over being merged with somewhere else. If McCarthy suggested that then he was chronically dumb. It is the political equivalent of suggesting Ireland rejoin the UK - a suggestion that would kill the suggester's credibility stone dead.
Yeah, let's just keep the gravy train rolling for all these thousands of councillors that do f*** all instead, sure that makes loads of sense.

One of these centuries we'll get a Government that aren't just gombeens looking after all their gombeen mates.
 

Ah Well

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The County Council LEA already includes the Town Council population as well. I agree that the Town/County Council system is crazy with 2 separate administrations delivering separate services to the same area. Although in reality the Town Councils are virtual subsidiaries of their parent County Council delivering rates to the County Council through the County Demand.
I agree with the above and I know the Town Council pop is within the LEA

Town Councils need to go telly tubby bye bye, increase the County Cllr numbers which will have to occur, end the dual mandate/seats (take Martin Coughlan of LAB in this particular area par example) and get one's arse down to Local Gov based on rep for a particular area (rural and urban combined) where the no of Cllrs will depend on the entire pop of the area
 

TommyO'Brien

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Yeah, let's just keep the gravy train rolling for all these thousands of councillors that do f*** all instead, sure that makes loads of sense.

One of these centuries we'll get a Government that aren't just gombeens looking after all their gombeen mates.
Any government that tries to merge two counties will face marches of tens of thousands demanding the decision be reversed, legal cases and threats. If a government thinks closing down a local hospital is difficult, it is in reality a cake walk compared to trying to merge counties for local government purposes. It would be political suicide for a government to try and they know it. They would get the sh1t kicked out of them in both counties by voters who would not accept the idea at all.

The issue isn't whether it is a good idea or not. It is whether it is doable or not. Anyone with the slightest grasp of politics knows that is not doable and would in effect involve a government commiting political suicide, not from irate local councillors but from irate local voters who would kick the sh1t out of them if they tried it.
 

TommyO'Brien

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Would not disagree with that. But in his defence he may have been under the impression that it would not be published. However, it is akin to political hari kari to propose that two rival counties be merged together.
I agree. I cannot help wondering what damage to the overall credibility of the report would such a suggestion do? Would it give the government an excuse to file almost all its suggestions in the nearest shredder? I am surprised no-one pointed out to the report's authors that such a suggestion would seriously backfire on them and their report. The more I read about the report the more I wonder how much of it will ever get implemented. Whole chunks of it seem unworkable, a classic example of ideas from people with no grasp of the difference between what should be done and what can be done. It is what can be done that is what might get implemented. Stuff that theoretically should be done but in practice cannot be is simply a waste of paper.
 

Kf

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Anyone au fait with the legal or even constiutional position of dissolving all the Town Councils while the elected reps are, supposedly, serving a five year term?
 

asset test

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Any government that tries to merge two counties will face marches of tens of thousands demanding the decision be reversed, legal cases and threats. If a government thinks closing down a local hospital is difficult, it is in reality a cake walk compared to trying to merge counties for local government purposes. It would be political suicide for a government to try and they know it. They would get the sh1t kicked out of them in both counties by voters who would not accept the idea at all.

The issue isn't whether it is a good idea or not. It is whether it is doable or not. Anyone with the slightest grasp of politics knows that is not doable and would in effect involve a government commiting political suicide, not from irate local councillors but from irate local voters who would kick the sh1t out of them if they tried it.
I am not so sure about this view. I think people are more concerned with their own economic circumstances at the moment and local politics is not the same at all as National.

Does everyone know a. who their town councillors are? and b. what they do and how much they are paid? This culling of town councillors will happen, and it has to really. FGS there are town councillors crawling all over this country, and they are not needed in the existing numbers. There might be a bit of a hue and cry about merging local politics but local politics has no power, no teeth, and very little money.

We are not talking about county rivalry for the GAA here, it is OUR money whether we live in a rural area or not, and it has to be done.
 

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