An Irexit: the opportunities for Ireland outside the EU.


Jack Walsh

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Leading Brexiteers claim all the good jobs will be in Blighty after March of this year.:D:D if you are mug enough to believe them.:D
Predictably the new site is infested with this tripe already.
All 12 people in the country who want to leave the EU must be logged in

Half of them supposedly hard nationalists, and they want to link up with the Tans
You see the Tans are better than the Darkies and the anti EU Tans don't like the Darkies either
All you can do is laugh
 

Mickeymac

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Predictably the new site is infested with this tripe already.
All 12 people in the country who want to leave the EU must be logged in

Half of them supposedly hard nationalists, and they want to link up with the Tans
You see the Tans are better than the Darkies and the anti EU Tans don't like the Darkies either
All you can do is laugh

What would we do without the side splitters?:LOL::LOL::LOL:
 

Sweet Darling

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Predictably the new site is infested with this tripe already.
All 12 people in the country who want to leave the EU must be logged in

Half of them supposedly hard nationalists, and they want to link up with the Tans
You see the Tans are better than the Darkies and the anti EU Tans don't like the Darkies either
All you can do is laugh
The EU is fundamentally a democratic institution.

The Parliament is elected directly by citizens of the member countries.

The Council is made up of elected Ministers from the member countries.

The Commission is run by nominees of the governments of the member countries.

All governments have been elected by their own citizens.

Many of these democracies were former members of the Soviet Union and were governed by totalitarianism before joining the EU.

All members of the EU from the biggest to the smallest have a veto on vital national interests.

Given those facts and the fact that we as a country have a net gain from EU transfers since our entry why are some people advocating tearing up the treaty signed with nearly thirty other European democracies and calling for the demise of the EU?
Simple.
They are either Communists or else gobshits
 

kerdasi amaq

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Ireland has always been cursed by treasonous political 'leaders'



It's not because of that. The western ideology is crony capitalism which is basically socialism for the corporations. The EU and UK delivers this as much crony capitalism as it can get away with. That much they have in common.
Basically, they are the only kind of people who can be elected here.
 

RasherHash

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The thing about **exiteers whether the Brit*** or the Ir** is that they live in a fantasy world rooted in a myth.

King Canute went down to the shore and told the tide to "Stop", it ignored him thus demonstrating that "Absolute Sovereignty " does not exist. This lesson has been lost on the **exiteers.

In their world "once freed from the shackles of the EU" the **exiteers will be free to negotiate international Trade Agreements with any country they might wish, and, in this fantasy, all of these trade Agreements will favour us. Their fantasy has us dictating the terms of these deals and ignoring the interests of the other country. We will never be the weaker party in these negotiations.

Reality and the **exiteers parted some time ago!
You're entitled to pretend to yourself that you know why people voted the way they did but the harsh reality for you is the majority voted for Brexit and Brexit they should get.

Everything else is the mere ramblings of Remoaners.
 

shiel

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You're entitled to pretend to yourself that you know why people voted the way they did but the harsh reality for you is the majority voted for Brexit and Brexit they should get.

Everything else is the mere ramblings of Remoaners.

In a democracy citizens are entitled to challenge other citizen's opinions on the issues of the day.

Citizens are also entitled to change their minds.
 

owedtojoy

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RasherHash

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In a democracy citizens are entitled to challenge other citizen's opinions on the issues of the day.

Citizens are also entitled to change their minds.
It took about 20 years to get a referendum on Brexit, even then it came about because the PM and establishment thought they'd (Remain) would win.

You cannot in conscience turn that majority away within a year (when a second referendum was first mooted) without addressing their democratically mandated preference, that would be entirely undemocratic.

Anyway I don't think a second referendum is a remote possibility, it would solve nothing and would leave the UK even more bitterly divided.
 

RasherHash

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We can look forward to the day when we are doing fabulous trade deals with the likes of Montserrat, the People's Republic of Tannu Tuva and Kiribati. That will be our Independence Day.
You are an inveterate establishment hack aren't you, you don't seem to have an iota of independence of thought in your head :whistle:
 

jmcc

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In a democracy citizens are entitled to challenge other citizen's opinions on the issues of the day.
And those who voted for and against Brexit are citizens of another state. Does this mean that your opinion and that of others matter?
 

firefly123

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You are an inveterate establishment hack aren't you, you don't seem to have an iota of independence of thought in your head :whistle:
Whereas you opened your mind so much that your brain fell out long ago.
 

RasherHash

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sic transit

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It took about 20 years to get a referendum on Brexit, even then it came about because the PM and establishment thought they'd (Remain) would win.

You cannot in conscience turn that majority away within a year (when a second referendum was first mooted) without addressing their democratically mandated preference, that would be entirely undemocratic.

Anyway I don't think a second referendum is a remote possibility, it would solve nothing and would leave the UK even more bitterly divided.
It only came about because Cameron couldn't keep his party under control! Don't assume democracy had anything to do with it.
 

Northsideman

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It only came about because Cameron couldn't keep his party under control! Don't assume democracy had anything to do with it.
You are dismissing 17 million voters?
 

sic transit

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You are dismissing 17 million voters?
I'm talking about how it came about. The vote was democratic if influenced by enough lies to turn Pinocchio into a giant Redwood.
 

GrimReefer

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Jan 2, 2013
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Ireland should signal to the World that it ill follow the UK if it leaves the EU.
Really? Maybe you have a point. Well, let's look at your justification.

We can use the opportunity at th every least to negotiate a better deal on Debt, on Fishing, on Taxation, on Immigration, and on our Energy Policy.
The UK, a country with a GDP of about 9-10 times that of the Republic, and a population approximately 15 times greater, is failing to negotiate in a favourable manner with the EU. The UK is a far more signifiant country economically and politically, it has a pretty strong home market due to its size, and is home to a global centre of finance.

I therefore conclude that, given the situation that the UK is currently enduring, that the Republic of Ireland would have at least as much difficulty in securing "a better deal" on anything. And by "at least as much", I should say that I am using a euphemism.

In addition, given the dependency on the UK that our economy currently enjoys, I imagine that our first negotiations would be with the UK, itself likely to be smarting from being shown its place in the world by the collective power of the EU, and the disdain of its would-be allies located somewhere on faraway hills (China, Japan, USA etc). This would be highly unlikely to conclude in a "better deal" for the Republic. Remember, the UK is already out for blood and it's losing (face, money, respect, clout). It should be recalled that Ireland broke from the UK in a military war, effectively defeating the UK, and then achieving increasing independence from it economically and culturally over the intervening century, particularly when it was an equal voice at the EU on many issues, and now is the poster child for the rights of small nations in the Brexit process.

Ireland needs free trade with China, Japan, India and the USA, and is prevented from having free trade through EU membership.
Ireland currently has actual free trade with the rest of the EU, a situation that would vanish on leaving the EU.

Free trade is, of course, a misnomer, because what is really the case is that Ireland would have to negotiate and bargain a trade treaty with the countries mentioned. Given their vast size, they would not offer a "better deal" to a tiny, untethered economy that the deal available to one that is represented by the largest economic entity in history. What would happen would be as follows :

Ireland would be requested to allow products and services from those countries to be traded in Ireland in competition with existing indigenous suppliers. Ireland would be required to allow certain quotas of nationals of those countries to be resident in Ireland (it is quite unlikely that Irish people will be interested in emigrating to India, for example, or even China). The list of requirements will go on. It is quite likely that being out of the EU, we would be reliant on finance on these distant, and competing countries.

The EU accounted for 5,151 million or 53 percent of total goods exports of which 1,496 million went to Belgium and 1,153 million to Great Britain. The US was the main non-EU destination accounting for 2,329 million or 24 percent of total exports.
the UK leaving the EU does place Ireland in a disadvantageous position compered to its current situation. Leaving the EU, where collective bargaining is on our behalf, would place Ireland in an even more disadvantageous position. Far from achieving a form of independence, our dependence on the kindness of Whitehall and Westminster would reveal exactly how and what the UK government and nation feels towards our nation.

If Britain leaves the EU most of our trade would lie outside the EU and this is the market set to grow most.
Clearly, poorer nations should be expected to grow faster than richer nations. Why this means we should place our future in their hands is beyond me. Particularly when these nations include China and India.

Leaving the EU would restore our Democracy, as a fundamental principle of democracy is that one government and Parliament cannot bind another. Greek voters learned they can no longer change economic policy, however bad the existing one may be.
Again, see how things are when we look to Westminster. They are having a tough time of it and would be where the vast majority of our diplomatic efforts would reside outside the EU. There is no question that the UK would seek to make Ireland once again a vassal state, even if nominally independent.

The EU is a supranational authority, sort of like the UK. You know, they have regional parliaments too. The USA has state parliaments. Hardly a world first.

The argument of Pooled Sovereignty making us stronger is nonsense as our politicians are in denial about how much power we have thrown away.
Perhaps you can clarify? Maybe quantify? What power exactly have we thrown away? Clearly, an international agreement involves compromise, the goal is that mutual compromise leads to mutual benefit. So, something is "less" than before, and ore things are "greater". Right now, we do not have the ability to strike FTAs with countries, where these FTAs are already covered by the EU. This is the precise reason that US companies make Ireland their base. Because being in the EU means they can base here, and we do't have to do the dirty work of coming up with FTAs with the European countries that are better than actual FREE TRADE with these countries.

The Irish voice at the table of 28 is not heard or heeded.
This is a statement made without any clarity or supporting evidence. It also contradicts everything that the EU has done since the Brexit process to protect peace in Ireland.

The EU is not a mutual benefit Trade Club.
Correct. It is more than just that. It is a peace project. It is a dream. It is a challenge that can unwind when petty nationalism poisons the minds of people. And being part of it has made Ireland powerful and rich in a way that could never happen otherwise.

It is on a reckless ride to Political Union, based on Socialism and Stagnation.
What is wrong per se with political union? The Tory Brits and Americans, the major adversaries of the EU, are all about their political union, and usually its because this gives them power to negotiate on their terms.

I don't get the reference to Socialism. Or "Stagnation" (your capitals) either.

The Single European Currency has been a disaster, and has been at the root of Irelands economic collapse of 2008.
Actually, it was the domestic policy by our government at the time to hollow out our economy and promote property speculation as a means to increasing GDP. Since 2008, while remaining in the eurozone, Ireland has recovered. What's sauce for the goose, as they say, is sauce for the gander. How do you explain the fact that, continuing in the eurozone, Ireland is now doing very well indeed, economically.

Being in the EU exposes us to the political tension in Eastern Europe and to the risk of energy security arising from withdrawal of access to Russian Gas.
It insulates us, not exposes us. Putin and his nonsense would reach our doorstep anyway. Think there's such a thing as neutrality? The only way to avoid war is to be too poor and worthless to be consequent in the problem.

The EU has no intention of allowing us to set our own tax rates as evidenced by the Google Tax debacle.
Yet, we do. Some people across the EU seek harmonisation, others don't. To know best the position of the EU, look at the reality of where we are. We set our own tax rates This can ONLY be changed with our explicit agreement, effectively we are therefore setting any new tax rates.

Irish Farmers and Fishermen would be much better off outside the EU.
Why? Outside the EU, in a world that has changed a great deal since 1973, we would then be open to competition to massive scale farming and fishing from countries outside the EU. Even if we "controlled our own waters", it's cheaper to fish at massive scale in other economies that would seek to sell that fish to Ireland as part of a trade deal. And they would also seek to have their fishing vessels operate in our waters. The EU stands between us and them.

Anyway. I welcome your rebuttals.
 

Northsideman

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I'm talking about how it came about. The vote was democratic if influenced by enough lies to turn Pinocchio into a giant Redwood.
Absolute shock, an election where porkies were told.
 

MsDaisyC

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