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D

Deleted member 51920

You do understand that without farming the cities will starve?
Eh no
We live in the Single Market now - with our trade agreements all over the world
Food has never been cheaper thanks to the EU
Good to have Irish farmers chipping in but we wont starve without them
 

devoutcapitalist

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Rural Ireland might just outlive The Independent Republic of Dublin seeing as the latter lacks an adequate water supply. ;)

The economic success of Dublin has been built in large measure on the taxes of the rest of the country and the decisions of successive governments, most notably since 2011, to favour it.
Really so your suggesting Dublin is less affluent than most Rural areas?
 

Baron von Biffo

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No its a property tax to pay for local services (hence termed LPT) - not a poll tax
So it should be based on the size of the property - which is a good estimate on the level of consumption of those services
Well no it isn't. I can't find any statistics that show rural houses have typically more occupants per sq/m than urban houses. But even if there were it would be unfair to levy the tax on floor area rather than actual occupation. If you're going to argue based on the number of inhabitants then a poll tax is the only fair outcome.

But that's really beside the point. If the services aren't provided it doesn't matter what size the house is or how many occupants it has it can't consume them. A 6 bed house in Ballyferriter with 12 people living in it doesn't have the same level of public services as a bedsit in Rathmines. and its unjust to expect it to attract the same level of property tax.
 
D

Deleted member 51920

Well no it isn't. I can't find any statistics that show rural houses have typically more occupants per sq/m than urban houses. But even if there were it would be unfair to levy the tax on floor area rather than actual occupation. If you're going to argue based on the number of inhabitants then a poll tax is the only fair outcome.

But that's really beside the point. If the services aren't provided it doesn't matter what size the house is or how many occupants it has it can't consume them. A 6 bed house in Ballyferriter with 12 people living in it doesn't have the same level of public services as a bedsit in Rathmines. and its unjust to expect it to attract the same level of property tax.
So explain the logic of applying the tax according the the value of the property?
 
D

Deleted member 51920

The subsidies eventually come back to the consumers of farm output who are, by and large, urban dwellers.
No they don't
They go into the back pocket of farmers
Many of whom use it to buy property in Dublin and push up prices
 

Baron von Biffo

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There will always be an Urban/Rural divide.

The Healy Raes have ensured that. They are playing a big game here, and the fact that they are returned election after election doesn't endear me to their electorate either.

It just perpetuates the myth of the thick culchie (who is anything but!) being totally against the urban person who doesn't wear a cap. But pays for everything. Ah well, it will always be thus.

Healy Rs have made a mint and still will. They don't care what urban people think at all. Same applies to other rural areas too.

All politics is Local.

Shame that Urban areas are contributing though. If rural areas are that successful and they want to live the rural life, well then, pay it for yourselves!

Not going to happen though is it? And so they continue laughing at others who contribute.
The Healy-Raes are just following in the tradition of Tony Gregory. He was the archetypal parish pump politician who sold his vote to the most corrupt Taoiseach we ever had in return for a package of goodies for his constituency.

Ultimately Haughey's government fell before Gregory's constituents could cash in but they still rewarded their hero with a seat for life.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Lol
Can you back that up with any facts?
Universities, hospitals, government departments, public transport, The National Gallery, The National Museum, The National Concert Hall and myriad other amenities all provided exclusively or through subsidies for Dublin. Are you really going to argue that not a cent for any of those came from beyond the M50?
 
D

Deleted member 51920

Universities, hospitals, government departments, public transport, The National Gallery, The National Museum, The National Concert Hall and myriad other amenities all provided exclusively or through subsidies for Dublin. Are you really going to argue that not a cent for any of those came from beyond the M50?
Do you not undestand there are more people paying taxes for those amenites in Dublin?
The net cost per taxpayer is small
Apart from that there is no point in having the National Concert Hall in BallyGoBackwards - no one would go there
Hard to explain the obvious to a simpleton
 

Baron von Biffo

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Eh no
We live in the Single Market now - with our trade agreements all over the world
Food has never been cheaper thanks to the EU
Good to have Irish farmers chipping in but we wont starve without them
Do you think Irish food exports to that single market make any contribution to our economic well being?

And what of food quality? wouldn't you rather eat a clean, healthy grass fed steak than something pumped full of antibiotics, chemicals and growth hormones?

Then of course there's the issue of food security. If we close down our farmers and rely on the other countries in the single market to feed us we're very much at their mercy. What will we do if their city dwellers look at us and say the Irish are getting along all right without farmers perhaps we should do the same?
 

devoutcapitalist

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Do you think Irish food exports to that single market make any contribution to our economic well being?

And what of food quality? wouldn't you rather eat a clean, healthy grass fed steak than something pumped full of antibiotics, chemicals and growth hormones?

Then of course there's the issue of food security. If we close down our farmers and rely on the other countries in the single market to feed us we're very much at their mercy. What will we do if their city dwellers look at us and say the Irish are getting along all right without farmers perhaps we should do the same?
Surely 100% of Irish farms are not financially viable without EU subsidies, there will still be farms even if EU handouts were abolished.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Really so your suggesting Dublin is less affluent than most Rural areas?
Have you ever heard of Helmuth von Moltke? He said 'No plan survives contact with the enemy'. Your plan to set Dublin up as an independent state leaving rural Ireland without the services it invested in over the years would likely prompt a reaction from the dispossessed. Dublin needs water from outside the city. Without it your Paradise on the Liffey would collapse very quickly.
 
D

Deleted member 51920

Do you think Irish food exports to that single market make any contribution to our economic well being?
They do and long may it continue

And what of food quality? wouldn't you rather eat a clean, healthy grass fed steak than something pumped full of antibiotics, chemicals and growth hormones?
Not allowed in the EU.
Where do you live?

Then of course there's the issue of food security. If we close down our farmers and rely on the other countries in the single market to feed us we're very much at their mercy. What will we do if their city dwellers look at us and say the Irish are getting along all right without farmers perhaps we should do the same?
So you fear WW3 and therefore we must subsidise Irish farmers?
Problem is WW3 is likely to be nuclear so Irish farmers will be just as affected as other EU farmers
So no reason to have us city people subsidise them for the intervening years if that ever happens
 

Baron von Biffo

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So explain the logic of applying the tax according the the value of the property?
Property values are heavily influenced by the availability of services - the greater the level of service the greater the price. This isn't a novel concept, look at Germany, Spain, France, the US etc and they all have value based property taxes. They're logical and fair.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Do you not undestand there are more people paying taxes for those amenites in Dublin?
The net cost per taxpayer is small
Apart from that there is no point in having the National Concert Hall in BallyGoBackwards - no one would go there
Hard to explain the obvious to a simpleton
Why did you have to go from arguing your point to an ad hominem attack?
 

Baron von Biffo

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Surely 100% of Irish farms are not financially viable without EU subsidies, there will still be farms even if EU handouts were abolished.
I think there might be issues if the EU attempted to cease subsidies for Irish farming alone.

If subsidies were abolished prices would have to go up to maintain farm incomes. There would also be pressure to go the American way and pump animals full of antibiotics and growth hormones. And imagine eating GM vegetables with traditional Irish levels of regulations on the GM companies.
 

Baron von Biffo

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So you fear WW3 and therefore we must subsidise Irish farmers?
Problem is WW3 is likely to be nuclear so Irish farmers will be just as affected as other EU farmers
So no reason to have us city people subsidise them for the intervening years if that ever happens
Ok it's late and I'm a bit tired so you'll have to help me here. Where do you think I mentioned WWIII?
 


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