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An Taisce gives thumbs to property taxes


Irish Citizens Party

Active member
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
177
The Indo reported on Thursday 18th Oct that the property tax "gets thumbs up from the Smart Taxes group".
Smart Taxes is made up of An Taisce, DITs School of Real Estate and the School of Philosophy and Economic Science.

The odd one out in this group is An Taisce.
First, it is a private voluntary group accountable to nobody. Second, it's general remit in legislation is heritage/water protection with a statutory role in planning. Third, it operates as a secret society which refuses to publish the names of its members and refuses membership to people it doesn't like.

I personally debated this aspect on RTE with then President Eanna Ni Leamhna in a programme presented by Tom Mc Gurk.
Eanna defended the secret membership comparing An Taisce to a tennis club which would be entitled to protect the privacy of it's members. I argued the comparison was groundless because An Taisce has a statutory role in planning legislation. The idea that an unaccountable, private, secret organisation could have a statutory role in any legislation,
is a subversion of democracy and an ongoing threat to the constitutional rights of Irish citizens.
Chairman Charles Stanley Smith claims An Taisce has "a unique role in the planning process" (annual report 2010/11)
It must be stressed that planning is a quasi judicial process. How can any private group claim a "unique role" in a judicial process?
For years elected members in counties around Ireland have passed resolutions calling for the de-listing of An Taisce from the planning process, but without success. Successive governments have run scared from this organisation.

A couple of years ago An Taisce decided to employ a dedicated official to become involved in energy policy issues (annual report)

Along with energy policy, An Taisce is now into property taxes. This time it has hooked up with two 3rd level institutions which are fully accountable to the electorate. How can these bodies justify this association with a secret society on an issue as fundamental to democracy as taxes?

What's next for An Taisce - planning the Budget?

One stated priority of the Irish Citizens Party is to de-list An Taisce from the planning process, for a start.

Jim Connolly
Founder Irish Citizens Party
Irish Citizens Party
.
 


B

birthday

The Indo reported on Thursday 18th Oct that the property tax "gets thumbs up from the Smart Taxes group".
Smart Taxes is made up of An Taisce, DITs School of Real Estate and the School of Philosophy and Economic Science.

The odd one out in this group is An Taisce.
First, it is a private voluntary group accountable to nobody. Second, it's general remit in legislation is heritage/water protection with a statutory role in planning. Third, it operates as a secret society which refuses to publish the names of its members and refuses membership to people it doesn't like.

I personally debated this aspect on RTE with then President Eanna Ni Leamhna in a programme presented by Tom Mc Gurk.
Eanna defended the secret membership comparing An Taisce to a tennis club which would be entitled to protect the privacy of it's members. I argued the comparison was groundless because An Taisce has a statutory role in planning legislation. The idea that an unaccountable, private, secret organisation could have a statutory role in any legislation,
is a subversion of democracy and an ongoing threat to the constitutional rights of Irish citizens.
Chairman Charles Stanley Smith claims An Taisce has "a unique role in the planning process" (annual report 2010/11)
It must be stressed that planning is a quasi judicial process. How can any private group claim a "unique role" in a judicial process?
For years elected members in counties around Ireland have passed resolutions calling for the de-listing of An Taisce from the planning process, but without success. Successive governments have run scared from this organisation.

A couple of years ago An Taisce decided to employ a dedicated official to become involved in energy policy issues (annual report)

Along with energy policy, An Taisce is now into property taxes. This time it has hooked up with two 3rd level institutions which are fully accountable to the electorate. How can these bodies justify this association with a secret society on an issue as fundamental to democracy as taxes?

What's next for An Taisce - planning the Budget?

One stated priority of the Irish Citizens Party is to de-list An Taisce from the planning process, for a start.

Jim Connolly
Founder Irish Citizens Party
Irish Citizens Party
.
A

The Planning Acts provide for An Taisce and about 20 other prescribed bodies to be informed of all planning applications in areas of scenic beauty or high amenity significance; where architectural, archaeological or environmental issues need to be considered.
What have you to say about the other bodies?
Have you been away for the last twenty years and not seen how developers, government and almost every local authority has attempted and often succeeded in destroying our environment and natural heritage for short term gain.

The role of An Taisce has been largely benign unless of course you are a corrupt gombeen or one of the many dumb idiots that make up our electorate.
As an organisation it may not be perfect and the 'secrecy' bit may not be to everones liking but looking at how Fianna Fail, corrupt county councils and developers have treated our country in recent times I think they have done their best at trying to stop some of the mad schemes and developments that have ruined us ( think housing estates on flood plains, ugly apartment blocks thrown up overnight, appalling planning decisons)
I recall the hatred with which many cretinous county councillors attacked An Taisce when they attempted to point out that many developments were in breach of already existing county development plans and breached all good planning practice.
Bord Pleanala were of no use nor were county planners in all of this-only An Taisce stood up for the common good!
It is as a result of the policies of so many of the above that have led us to having to introduce a property tax!
Perhaps if we had listened to An Taisce a bit more we might not need a property tax now.

I take it that you are in Fianna Fail at a low level before now?
 
B

birthday

The Indo reported on Thursday 18th Oct that the property tax "gets thumbs up from the Smart Taxes group".
Smart Taxes is made up of An Taisce, DITs School of Real Estate and the School of Philosophy and Economic Science.

The odd one out in this group is An Taisce.
First, it is a private voluntary group accountable to nobody. Second, it's general remit in legislation is heritage/water protection with a statutory role in planning. Third, it operates as a secret society which refuses to publish the names of its members and refuses membership to people it doesn't like.

I personally debated this aspect on RTE with then President Eanna Ni Leamhna in a programme presented by Tom Mc Gurk.
Eanna defended the secret membership comparing An Taisce to a tennis club which would be entitled to protect the privacy of it's members. I argued the comparison was groundless because An Taisce has a statutory role in planning legislation. The idea that an unaccountable, private, secret organisation could have a statutory role in any legislation,
is a subversion of democracy and an ongoing threat to the constitutional rights of Irish citizens.
Chairman Charles Stanley Smith claims An Taisce has "a unique role in the planning process" (annual report 2010/11)
It must be stressed that planning is a quasi judicial process. How can any private group claim a "unique role" in a judicial process?
For years elected members in counties around Ireland have passed resolutions calling for the de-listing of An Taisce from the planning process, but without success. Successive governments have run scared from this organisation.

A couple of years ago An Taisce decided to employ a dedicated official to become involved in energy policy issues (annual report)

Along with energy policy, An Taisce is now into property taxes. This time it has hooked up with two 3rd level institutions which are fully accountable to the electorate. How can these bodies justify this association with a secret society on an issue as fundamental to democracy as taxes?

What's next for An Taisce - planning the Budget?

One stated priority of the Irish Citizens Party is to de-list An Taisce from the planning process, for a start.

Jim Connolly
Founder Irish Citizens Party
Irish Citizens Party
.
Are you Denis O'Donovan from FF?
http://http//www.antaisce.ie/Press/AnTaisceRelatedNewsReleases/tabid/1024/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/239/An-Taisce-responds-to-Senator-Denis-ODonovans-Klu-Klux-Klan-claims.aspx
 

Seanie Lemass

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
20,128
The point is that An Taisce did NOT challenge the big developers at all.

It was far too busy stopping farmers in Mayo building houses for their children.
 
B

birthday

The point is that An Taisce did NOT challenge the big developers at all.

It was far too busy stopping farmers in Mayo building houses for their children.
Factually incorrect. I know of several cases ( one very close to home) where An Taisce opposed big developments but were overruled by An Bord Pleanala.
All An Taisce requested re one off housing was that the existing regulations and good planning were upheld in all decisions.
Of course we were building tens of thousands of these one off houses per year
One look around our countryside shows how rarely any proper planning was involved.

No other country in Europe has its countryside blighted in this way-is it any wonder the country is in the state it is with so many thousands of ignorant fools who cannot see beyond next year let alone the next decade!
Vote for short term gain and populism!
 

TommyO'Brien

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
12,222
Another rubbish thread by the so-called Irish Citizen's Party.
 

bluefirelog

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
2,772
Another rubbish thread by the so-called Irish Citizen's Party.
The basic point of the post is that An Taisce is a private voluntary group that doesn't have to declare who its members are and yet has a statutory role in the planning processes and has become involved in different areas. I don't know enough about what is said in the Op to comment, but it would seem that they should be required to declare who their membership are. One presumes that all groups that have to be statutorily consulted should be required to reveal their membership?
 

Mountaintop

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
1,263
ICP..can you ask a mod to put the word 'up' in the thread title?...without it, it sounds like something from The Godfather.
 

laidback

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
1,134
I was a member of an taisce. I would not want them or any other organisation I belong to giving out my name without my permission. Also any organisation surely has the right to refuse membership if they suspect the motives of the applicant.

if i was still in An taisce I would question what they are doing supporting some form of property tax - it would appear to be outside their remit.
 

Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,557
An Taisce are an organisation that I have little time for. Their interference, particularly in rural areas has often been unwelcome. I think the decision of what to tax or not tax should also be none of their business.

To me quite often their policies resemble a lot of leftist environmental claptrap.
 

Con Gallagher

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
2,413
An Taisce are an organisation that I have little time for....To me quite often their policies resemble....
????
...an impartial monitor on the application of EU environmental legislation at local level
...promotes environmental awareness through Green Schools and other educational programmes
...is a network of Local Associations supported by An Taisce through facilitating a bottom-up consultative approach when making ...submissions on national or local planning policy.
...a key consultation Prescribed Body under Section 24 of the 2000 Planning and Development Act for input into national policy formulation.
...acts as a key consultation Prescribed Body under Article 28 (1) of the 2001 Regulations for planning applications that fall under (amenity, protected structures, sites of heritage interest, national monuments, nature conservation) and for applications that contain ‘EIS’.
.... acts as a key consultation Prescribed Body in the area of waste and natural environment under: S.I. 538/2001 in relation to Forestry applications; The EPA Act in relation to Integrated Pollution Control and Waste Licenses & The Aquaculture & Fisheries Amendment Act (1997) for Aquaculture applications.
is part of a large global movement of approved National Trusts which preserve and hold property in perpetuity for the benefit of their respective peoples.
 

borntorum

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
12,805
I'm a member of An Taisce, though not active. They don't get everything right, but if they had been listened to more frequently over the past 30 or so years we would have a much more pleasant and balanced country and community.

I don't have a problem with them having a view on this issue. Why shouldn't they?
 

Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,557
????
...an impartial monitor on the application of EU environmental legislation at local level
...promotes environmental awareness through Green Schools and other educational programmes
...is a network of Local Associations supported by An Taisce through facilitating a bottom-up consultative approach when making ...submissions on national or local planning policy.
...a key consultation Prescribed Body under Section 24 of the 2000 Planning and Development Act for input into national policy formulation.
...acts as a key consultation Prescribed Body under Article 28 (1) of the 2001 Regulations for planning applications that fall under (amenity, protected structures, sites of heritage interest, national monuments, nature conservation) and for applications that contain ‘EIS’.
.... acts as a key consultation Prescribed Body in the area of waste and natural environment under: S.I. 538/2001 in relation to Forestry applications; The EPA Act in relation to Integrated Pollution Control and Waste Licenses & The Aquaculture & Fisheries Amendment Act (1997) for Aquaculture applications.
is part of a large global movement of approved National Trusts which preserve and hold property in perpetuity for the benefit of their respective peoples.
In my experience they have a negative impact from a financial perspective, the people who tend to join them are left of centre on environmental issues, and EU environmental directives are often implemented in Ireland at the extreme end of the scale in comparison to other countries.

That someone as left of centre as yourself seems to be their primary cheerleader on this thread proves my case in point.
 

bluefirelog

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
2,772
I'm a member of An Taisce, though not active. They don't get everything right, but if they had been listened to more frequently over the past 30 or so years we would have a much more pleasant and balanced country and community.

I don't have a problem with them having a view on this issue. Why shouldn't they?
Do you think the membership of their organisation should be a matter of public record?
 

Con Gallagher

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
2,413
That someone as left of centre as yourself seems to be their primary cheerleader on this thread proves my case in point.
That has given me a good laugh.

On this thread I noted the joke that is the ICP, highlighted your own self-proclaimed ignorance and listed An Taisce's own objects. Not really the stuff of Joe "ordinary workers" Higgins.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,218
[h=2]An Taisce gives thumbs to property taxes[/h]
I'm hoping this isn't a precedent; I was planning on paying by cheque myself.
 

Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,557
That has given me a good laugh.

On this thread I noted the joke that is the ICP, highlighted your own self-proclaimed ignorance and listed An Taisce's own objects. Not really the stuff of Joe "ordinary workers" Higgins.
It is the stuff of interfering in business and adding costs to business, ask your average farmer what they think of An Taisce.
 

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