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ANALYSIS: The US election and Unionists in the "Ulster".


Figaroni

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In Ulster, the tribal response of Protestants to their situation means that even modern unionists such as Mike Nesbitt have almost completely failed to attract Catholic support. The historical associations of unionism are so toxic.

There is one key hope for those Republicans who want to be multi-racial.

Yesterday’s election exposed a generation gap over culture, with some states passing measures in support of gay marriage and legalising cannabis outright, which would have been unthinkable a few years ago.

It may be that the Republicans coalesce around opposition to these and other social issues such as abortion, enabling the party to appeal to African Americans and Hispanics who have traditional views on these matters
.

This too has echoes in Northern Ireland, where Catholics and Protestants take the same stance on such questions, although in the past it was not enough to bridge the sectarian divide.
ANALYSIS: Vote trend among whites like tribal Ulster - News - Belfast Newsletter

Could or would Unionists bridge the sectarian divide in this manner?
 


theloner

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Here's a telling piece to see how far out of touch unionists are, even with their Great British public:

MP's who voted for war with Iraq

Roy Beggs (UUP Antrim East)
David Burnside (UUP Antrim South)
Gregory Campbell (DUP Londonderry East)
Nigel Dodds (DUP Belfast North)
Jeffrey Donaldson (UUP Lagan Valley)
Lady Sylvia Hermon (UUP Down North)
The Rev Ian Paisley (DUP Antrim North)
Mrs Iris Robinson (DUP Strangford)
Peter Robinson (DUP Belfast East)
The Rev Martin Smyth (UUP Belfast South)
David Trimble (UUP Upper Bann)
 

physicist

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ANALYSIS: Vote trend among whites like tribal Ulster - News - Belfast Newsletter

Could or would Unionists bridge the sectarian divide in this manner?
I really don't know what this comment is trying to refer to, would conservative Unionists win political support from conservative Catholics from adopting more conservative attitude, would they lose liberal Unionist vote as a result? Does the reverse apply to Nationalists and winning over liberal Unionist votes?

Is the Union even a (socially) "conservative" entity? Would a United Ireland be a "liberal" wasteland?

Even if a conservative Unionist was more appealing to a devote Catholic Nationalist than a Liberal Nationalist on an issue like abortion or gay marriage or euthanasia who might be campaigning for these things, wouldn't it be a mere loan vote or a tactical vote and make no difference to the tribal affiliations people possess?

Similarly if a Liberal Nationalist voted for a liberal Unionist like Dawn Purvis on these matters? Similarly transfers between conservative elements of Sinn Féin, DUP and SDLP in Foyle, to keep a liberal "neutral" like Eamon McCann out on the abortion issue amongst other things... Yes a number of the DUP transfered to SF as the "lesser evil" in comparison to McCann.

All votes are tactical, voters are far too individual to find candidates who represent their views wholesale so they have to compromise with the best one, because that candidate will have to compromise to get the best that they can get too.

I hope people realise that constitutional politics, cultural politics and representative politics do not easily go hand in hand. Neither does the divides between fiscal and social politics fit into easy groups.

If coalescing around opposition does bridge the sectarian divide, it doesn't necessarily wall it in.

What this shows is that one of the West's largest democracies cannot do away with tribalism, whether a Democrat or a Republican leads them.
 
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physicist

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Here's a telling piece to see how far out of touch unionists are, even with their Great British public:

MP's who voted for war with Iraq

Roy Beggs (UUP Antrim East)
David Burnside (UUP Antrim South)
Gregory Campbell (DUP Londonderry East)
Nigel Dodds (DUP Belfast North)
Jeffrey Donaldson (UUP Lagan Valley)
Lady Sylvia Hermon (UUP Down North)
The Rev Ian Paisley (DUP Antrim North)
Mrs Iris Robinson (DUP Strangford)
Peter Robinson (DUP Belfast East)
The Rev Martin Smyth (UUP Belfast South)
David Trimble (UUP Upper Bann)
I'm sorry but didn't the majority of MPs in Britain (and not NI) vote for the same thing?
 

theloner

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I'm sorry but didn't the majority of MPs in Britain (and not NI) vote for the same thing?
Your point being?

Majorities in the UK and Canada believe the war in Iraq is "unjustified" and - in the UK - are critical of their government's support of US policies in Iraq.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/pdfs/2006_july_guardian_july_poll.pdf

A September 2007 poll conducted by the BBC found that 2/3 of the world's population believed the US should withdraw its forces from Iraq.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6981553.stm

You did double-check my post and realise I said the 'Great British public', not the war criminals in Westminster?
 
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between the bridges

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well as a stereotypical uvf supporting willie frazier impressionistic unionist i will be to busy drinking buckfast and urinating on chapels to bridge any divide...dia agus uladh...
 

physicist

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Your point being?


Majorities in the UK and Canada believe the war in Iraq is "unjustified" and - in the UK - are critical of their government's support of US policies in Iraq.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/pdfs/2006_july_guardian_july_poll.pdf

A September 2007 poll conducted by the BBC found that 2/3 of the world's population believed the US should withdraw its forces from Iraq.
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Most people 'want Iraq pull-out'
This is political elitism, even if the majority of British and the majority of Unionist opposed the Iraq war the "political elites" in power could vote against them. Democracy doesn't always follow public opinion, when it did Iraq war protesters who wouldn't vote Labour again were just sucked into the Liberal Democrat camp.
 

theloner

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This is political elitism, even if the majority of British and the majority of Unionist opposed the Iraq war the "political elites" in power could vote against them. Democracy doesn't always follow public opinion, when it did Iraq war protesters who wouldn't vote Labour again were just sucked into the Liberal Democrat camp.
Who claimed the war was a 'disastrous and illegal invasion of Iraq'. The NI unionists were, once again, out of step with British public opinion.
 

physicist

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Who claimed the war was a 'disastrous and illegal invasion of Iraq'. The NI unionists were, once again, out of step with British public opinion.
As was most of the British Government and Opposition. Was there any Conservatives who voted against the War?
 

Mr. Garlic

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I'm sorry but didn't the majority of MPs in Britain (and not NI) vote for the same thing?
Exactly. The politicians in the rest of the UK don't represent the actual opinions of their electorate very well either. It's not just something to bash Unionists with.
 

physicist

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Exactly. The politicians in the rest of the UK don't represent the actual opinions of their electorate very well either. It's not just something to bash Unionists with.
Yip for the record I know Unionists (and not the oooh I'll vote Alliance ones) who opposed the Iraq war, I know an Irish Republican who actually supported it.
 

between the bridges

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Ah Flame wars ... that's our shared heritage ... sometimes with real flames too.
no flames between me and mopeymic i have on ignore, as he knows, he reply's to my posts to make himself feel good, it almost makes one feel sorry for the poor soul...
 

theloner

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Yip for the record I know Unionists (and not the oooh I'll vote Alliance ones) who opposed the Iraq war, I know an Irish Republican who actually supported it.
Once again here are the unionist MPs who voted 'for' the attack on Iraq, but obviously that's not as definitive as the unionists 'you know' that opposed it! Couldn't make it up.

MP's who voted for war with Iraq

Roy Beggs (UUP Antrim East)
David Burnside (UUP Antrim South)
Gregory Campbell (DUP Londonderry East)
Nigel Dodds (DUP Belfast North)
Jeffrey Donaldson (UUP Lagan Valley)
Lady Sylvia Hermon (UUP Down North)
The Rev Ian Paisley (DUP Antrim North)
Mrs Iris Robinson (DUP Strangford)
Peter Robinson (DUP Belfast East)
The Rev Martin Smyth (UUP Belfast South)
David Trimble (UUP Upper Bann)

Fact.
 

Mr. Garlic

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Yip for the record I know Unionists (and not the oooh I'll vote Alliance ones) who opposed the Iraq war
We should be out of there and out of Afghanistan IMO. We should use our army to defend British sovereignty and territory and not much else.
 

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