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Angela Merkel consigns Ireland, Portugal and Spain to their fate


TradCat

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Interesting article in the Telegraph.

Angela Merkel consigns Ireland, Portugal and Spain to their fate - Telegraph

It may explain some of the panic we have seen at the weekend from Garret Fitzgerald and Colm McCarthy.

If the markets are going to price our risk with no German safety net we are out of the game. So the budget will be savage as the political class try desperately to keep our membership of the eurozone viable. But for the Germans our departure might not be such a bad idea. It's going to be a rough couple of months.
 


TonyBird

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Its an outrage !
Germans should bail us out but we must remain independant .
Simples !

Seriosly though , its disgraceful how the markets are disrespecting our 'passiveness' .

I mean ffs , are we not bending over backwards ?

I'm beginning to think that their are people who really want to 'break' us .
 
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FutureTaoiseach

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Interesting article in the Telegraph.

Angela Merkel consigns Ireland, Portugal and Spain to their fate - Telegraph

It may explain some of the panic we have seen at the weekend from Garret Fitzgerald and Colm McCarthy.

If the markets are going to price our risk with no German safety net we are out of the game. So the budget will be savage as the political class try desperately to keep our membership of the eurozone viable. But for the Germans our departure might not be such a bad idea. It's going to be a rough couple of months.
The Brits, Danes and Swedes have been vindicated in their refusal to join the Euro given it has been such a catastrophe for us.
 

owedtojoy

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The Brits, Danes and Swedes have been vindicated in their refusal to join the Euro given it has been such a catastrophe for us.
Be honest ... we ************************************ it up ourselves, and we continue to do so with this abysmal pack of idiots in office.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Be honest ... we ************************************ it up ourselves, and we continue to do so with this abysmal pack of idiots in office.
We were doing fine before we joined the Euro in 1999. Inflation could not have taken off the way it did if interest-rates had remained where they were in 1998 when they were 10%. Am I calling for 10% interest rates in 2010? Of course not. I am calling for a return to setting interest rates at national level according to what the economy needs at any given time. If the problem were simply "ourselves" then why are the Spanish (20% unemployment), Portuguese and Greeks in the same or worse situation? I'm sorry but I don't buy the argument coming down from the Vichy-elites that argues the Irish cannot effectively govern ourselves.
 

Mister men

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Lisbon. Yes for jobs.
 

dresden8

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Why wouldn't she?

The gambling German banks and pension funds have gotten their money back out of us.

Now they can drop the pretence and tell us to fnck the fnck right off.

Thanks Lenny.
 

Breadan O'Connor

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We were doing fine before we joined the Euro in 1999. Inflation could not have taken off the way it did if interest-rates had remained where they were in 1998 when they were 10%. Am I calling for 10% interest rates in 2010? Of course not. I am calling for a return to setting interest rates at national level according to what the economy needs at any given time. If the problem were simply "ourselves" then why are the Spanish (20% unemployment), Portuguese and Greeks in the same or worse situation? I'm sorry but I don't buy the argument coming down from the Vichy-elites that argues the Irish cannot effectively govern ourselves.
+1

Joining the euro was a catastrophic decision by the Irish elites.
 

vanla sighs

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Lisbon. Yes for Recovery.
 

Thac0man

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I mean ffs , are we not bending over backwards ?

I'm beginning to think that their are people who really want to 'break' us .
No we are not. Our national finances are festooned with Golden Calves, state pensions, Quangos, public and political pay packets. Any EU paymaster looking at us does not see a ship sailing out of troubled waters, but a ship of greedy fools waiting for a tow. Does anyone really think that Merkal does not tap up the German ambassador to Ireland once in a while? The question shes asked is; has been any effort to get serious and break the golden circle of government and social partners and their deal to immunise each other from the effects of recession? The answer is always, no.

Lets face it, the one way out of this recession and way to correct our economy is to lower our cost base. And the governments single biggest achievement to date thus far has been an agreement that makes that impossible. Anyone really think that has escaped the EUs notice?

The only question there really is over this thread is whether Germany thinks we cannot recover, or will not?
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Is our government the most incompetent in the so called free world?

They have broken this country to satisfy the "bond holders", now the self same bond holders are being warned off by the Krauts, so all our eagerness to please will come to nothing and we're likely to run out of money by March, meanwhile the elites that brought us here are still tinkering with the problem.

They have been led into this with their eyes wide shut, just enjoying the ride and assuming it'll all be fine, but actually for the first time this feels really real, a real threat to lives and civil order in ireland and the self-same muppets are still in charge.
 
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Werent the German Banks some of the Anglo bond holders?

Didnt Lenny rush through the payments to the Anglo bond holders?

Join the dots.
 

LowIQ

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It was the only thing that saved us from bankruptcy.

My, but you are an appalling troll!
Yes, who'd want to do an Iceland? Or perhaps you are the troll.
 

eoghanacht

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in the words of Bundesbank chief Axel Weber: “Next time there is a problem, (bondholders) should be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. So far the only ones who have paid for the solution are the taxpayer

Eh, hello. Isn't that what most reasonable people would expect, that those who took the risk should take the hit?
 
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in the words of Bundesbank chief Axel Weber: “Next time there is a problem, (bondholders) should be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. So far the only ones who have paid for the solution are the taxpayer

Eh, hello. Isn't that what most reasonable people would expect, that those who took the risk should take the hit?
Next time there is a problem


Plans already in motion?
 

Toland

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in the words of Bundesbank chief Axel Weber: “Next time there is a problem, (bondholders) should be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. So far the only ones who have paid for the solution are the taxpayer

Eh, hello. Isn't that what most reasonable people would expect, that those who took the risk should take the hit?
Hear, hear
 

TradCat

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in the words of Bundesbank chief Axel Weber: “Next time there is a problem, (bondholders) should be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. So far the only ones who have paid for the solution are the taxpayer

Eh, hello. Isn't that what most reasonable people would expect, that those who took the risk should take the hit?
Yes, but how risky does it make lending to us? And if our only hope is to get the interest rate on our bonds down this correct decision might make our position impossible.
 

WTTR

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Europe needs a scapegoat; our Government is blindly offering us up

We were doing fine before we joined the Euro in 1999. Inflation could not have taken off the way it did if interest-rates had remained where they were in 1998 when they were 10%. Am I calling for 10% interest rates in 2010? Of course not. I am calling for a return to setting interest rates at national level according to what the economy needs at any given time. If the problem were simply "ourselves" then why are the Spanish (20% unemployment), Portuguese and Greeks in the same or worse situation? I'm sorry but I don't buy the argument coming down from the Vichy-elites that argues the Irish cannot effectively govern ourselves.
Admittedly our situation was different. Our main problem is that our politicians never got over the love-in with the EU concept. They had not much sense of what was happening in international finance, demographics resulting in the rapidly ageing of the EU, they lost all knowledge of awareness to placing too much reliance on money as a goal rather than as an other factor of production. They were not qualified for the times that were in it. Our problems were not solely to do with low interest rates:
  • Ireland was to the forefront of new fangled financial instruments e.g. Securitisation Derivatives, because of the Financial Centre on Dublin's docks.
  • We had politicians that appeared to be in hock to the members of the CIF. They continually passed favourable legislation for: the building of houses in seaside resorts, rural areas, city areas; favourable tax treatment for commercial buildings, car parks, and docklands; they gave favourable tax treatment for the building of apartments, hotels etc all over the country.
  • We had the youngest population between the ages of 20 and forty of any other country in the Capitalist West.
  • There were loads of international financiers that were prepared to give short term funding to our banking system, until the loans ended up owned by our young men and women.
  • The ageing profile in the mainland wealthy EU is a rapidly ageing one. A society that was desperately looking for financial returns that would help to fund their retirement.
  • The bankers extended mortgage terms out to thirty and forty years; thereby increasing the amount of loan that a young person could borrow.
  • A highly educated Professional class that jumped blindly into the anarchic equity developer borrowing syndrome; somewhat similar as to the poor blacks that borrowed the Sub-Prime loans in the US. What could they have in common?
  • A Main Stream Media, out from a few individuals who got their knuckles rapped, that were blinded to what was happening by the massive inflow of property development advertisement income. So were highly ineffective as the Third Estate.
  • As you pointed out we also had very low interest rates because of our Euro membership.
http://www.politics.ie/europe/131838-eurozone-stabilising-26.html#post3102436
The International Financiers did not do their homework either in adequately weighing up their stupid investment in Securitisation of Irish Mortgages etc. The Economist magazine, our own CB and international finance agency were pointing out that Ireland’s property scene was overheating at the turn of the millennium. Most of this ill thought out and badly researched EU Hedge and Pension Fund investment in Ireland over the past ten years was off maverick dimensions. Any clown with an ounce of financial sense would have known that. That is why it is the less suave Pension Funds etc that is to loose because the so called educated International Financial Buccaneers were engaged in massive fraud. Many of these IFB guys were European. So, Ireland’s problem is a massive EU one.

It was evident before the 2007 General Election that the whole FF approach to our problems would be greatly influenced by the dire financial straights that their supporters were in; that this would hinder their defence against the IFB etc. This is what has happened. They actually asked the IFB for solutions and paid them millions more in fees etc. The losses now are being moved from the IFB and FF developer supporters to the people of Ireland. If FF lost the Election; the present trauma could have been ring fenced to the private lenders and borrowers! But FF have left us without any defence to the likes of Merkel and Sarkozi, because we are seen as being too week by not defended our people against stupid private investment. Europe needs a scapegoat; our Government is blindly offering us up!
 
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sondagefaux

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We were doing fine before we joined the Euro in 1999.
Damn those elites who voted in favour of the Maastricht Treaty...

Inflation could not have taken off the way it did if interest-rates had remained where they were in 1998 when they were 10%.
Says who? Countries can have high interest rates and high inflation. India has been raising interest rates for several years now, unsuccessfully trying to control inflation:

2008:

New Delhi, Jul 2: The country's over 96 lakh unit automobile industry is in for a major slowdown, thanks to high interest rates and double-digit inflation, which are expected to continue even in the second half of this year. This has compelled analysts to lower the overall growth projection for the domestic automobile industry from a conservative 8-9% earlier to 5-6% now for the current fiscal.
Inflation, high interest rates press brakes on auto sector growth

2010:

India: Two days ago, the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) increased its two key policy rates on the back of continued inflationary pressure. High inflation has developed into a big political dilemma in India. In fact, the hike surprised the market as the government came up with a 50-basis point hike in the reverse repo rate to 4.5 percent, more than the 25-basis point hike expected by analysts. This is the fourth time this year that India has raised interest rates (exhibit 1). Meanwhile, the repo rate was lifted by 25 basis points to 5.75 percent with the RBI highlighting the increase in demand-side price pressures.
India vs RI: Parallelism in inflation and interest rates | The Jakarta Post

At the same time, ADB raised its forecast for annual average inflation in FY2010 to 7.5%, up from 5% in April, warning that high food prices remain a near-term concern. It also noted that the rupee’s appreciation by more than 11% in real terms between August 2009 and August 2010, poses an additional challenge for policymakers as they seek to maintain high growth while winding back the monetary and fiscal stimulus measures used to help the economy recover from the global economic crisis.
Am I calling for 10% interest rates in 2010? Of course not. I am calling for a return to setting interest rates at national level according to what the economy needs at any given time. If the problem were simply "ourselves" then why are the Spanish (20% unemployment), Portuguese and Greeks in the same or worse situation?

I'm sorry but I don't buy the argument coming down from the Vichy-elites that argues the Irish cannot effectively govern ourselves.
Are you saying that the government is arguing that the Irish government can't effectively govern Ireland? The main group of people I hear arguing that are the Irish people...

BTW, every time you use the word 'elites' or 'Vichy' or a combination of the two, I'll post this picture:



Enjoy!
 

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