Anglo Irish Bank - Bondholders revealed.

CookieMonster

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Anglo-Irish Bank did not represent a systemic risk to the Irish economy, it wasn’t a high street bank like AIB or the Bank of Ireland. If it had been allowed to go the way of Lehmans the only losers would have been shareholders and bondholders. The Irish state stepped in and nationalised a bank that was basically run by crooks lending to property speculators. The Irish people are taking losses that should rightly have been shouldered by bondholders.


Anglo-Irish Bondholders Should Take the LossesIs the ECB Forcing Ireland to Protect German Investments? - Guy Fawkes' blog
 


Aristodemus

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Not exactly revelatory is it?
 

spotty

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Spotty is glad he is not an enemy of that Guido Fawkes.
 

Holy Cow

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Interesting, very interesting.

There is one company there that flies under the radar, but is big in the IFSC.
 

Holy Cow

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Millhouse investments is not listed there.
 

CookieMonster

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Not exactly revelatory is it?
Um... I think it might be.

As Guido asks: Is the Irish government under pressure from the European Central Bank in Frankfurt to protect German investors?

And also... one name we should be familiar stick out - Goldman Sachs Asset Management International. I'm sure the good citizen Peter Sutherland wouldn't like to see successive generations of his fellow countrymen burdened with billions in debt because his Employers took a bad punt on Anglo? He, after all, should know how capitalism works.

Will Peter stand up and say that the bondholders should take the hit on a bad investment in a bad bank? Will he fu...
 

Holy Cow

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CookieMonster

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Millhouse investments is not listed there.
That's because Millhouse owns a chunk of lower Tier 2 bonds in Irish Nationwide (the other crapheap we own), not Anglo.
 

Holy Cow

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That's because Millhouse owns a chunk of lower Tier 2 bonds in Irish Nationwide (the other crapheap we own), not Anglo.
Interesting they invested in one and not the other.

A couple of very interesting names on that list, mainly, Pioneer Investment and BNP Paribas.

BNP Paribas have been very active here, in buying out loads of real estate businesses.
 

Holy Cow

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They could all take a 100% hit. No problemo
I would love to know who runs and invests in Pioneer Investments ( Ireland) LTD.
 
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Are any of these investors Pension schemes and Credit Unions as Lenny informed us?
 

gijoe

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Large preponderence of German based bondholders in that list.
 

gijoe

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Lookie here: Goldman Sachs is listed as a bondholder and guess who has been giving the government advise of late?
 

P.White MMPC

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So why is Dublin’s political establishment so keen to protect foreign investors at the expense of future generations? Guido has obtained the list of foreign Anglo-Irish bondholders as at the close of business tonight. These are the people whom Dublin’s politicians really seem to care about:


Could Guido publish a list of Irish Anglo-Irish bondholders I wonder ?
 

paulp

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Between them they hold bonds of circa 4 billion?

where is the other 30 odd billion going?
 

SKELLY

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Someone do a comparison with members interests!

wonder will any names crop up
 

cyberianpan

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Guido is being stupid with this one
If it had been allowed to go the way of Lehmans the only losers would have been shareholders and bondholders.
Firstly the shareholders lost everything.

Secondly: Senior "bondholders" are nearly all other banks, who are moving their surplus deposits to another bank who can use it. So we'd just have been robbing the deposits of French and German banks... they'd still owe them to their customers

Fact was that to be allowed lend out money... banks have to keep a bulwark of capital reserve. Pat Neary was responsible for ensuring this was large enough... he kept certifying Anglo as fine... yet they hadn't anything like adequate capital reserves. Pat Neary was representing Ireland Inc... so the burden is ours.

cYp
 

CookieMonster

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Interesting they invested in one and not the other.

It's not really. If you're going to buy risky crap you don't want to buy too much of it. As an aside I believe the coupon on INBS's lower Tier 2 bonds (subordinate bonds) which Millhouse owns is around 13%. They knew well how risky it was and they bought it and were paid handsomely for that risk.

But, one can't blame them for threatening legal action. It does put the need for the guarantee into question. These guys are professional investors, they make these kinds of investments every day, they know the risk and they know the reward (your or I may get 1% interest on our deposits if we're lucky) and they would take the same risk again here or elsewhere if they have lost before but thought it was a good bet the next time. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "Ireland's image" or the performance of State bonds. They are not connected, then or now.

A couple of very interesting names on that list, mainly, Pioneer Investment and BNP Paribas.

BNP Paribas have been very active here, in buying out loads of real estate businesses.
Busing then pre-boom or buying up stuff post-bust? Any details?
 


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