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Animal Rights advocates presenting to school children at pre, primary and secondary levels!


wexfordman

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Right,

This is an offshoot of the vegan ireland thread, I think it deserves a specific thread all on its own. I have posted a link in the other thread to it, as I want the others involved in it to discuss the specific issues of this. I have a feeling this may turn out to be quite controversial, and in a way, I have a tinge of guilt, because this does expose and discuss the motives and backgrounds of certain figures. To those people, firstly, I hope you take it in the right frame, I hope you can see this as an attempt to be open and honest, and I hope, you participate in the debate itself, and offer frank an open discussion on this.


From my own perspective, I have two overlying interests in this topic. The first, being that I am a parent, my children are of a young age, attending both primary and secondary schools, and I am concerned about this type of program. The second is, that I do particiapte in hunting activities, I eat the meat that I hunt, and so does my family, I raise my own animals for food also, including chickens, eggs, turkeys etc. The hunting aspect is not relevent to this discussion, ,as hunting is nto even discussed, in the presentation, it is primarily about farming, and veganism etc. Now all of the above is in the interests of being open about any potential "bias" I may have, so to speak.

So, now to the issue.

There is an organisation called Animal Education Outreach ANIMAL EDUCATION OUTREACH - Home They from what i can see, "Animal Rights Advocates" with a number of well known (in the AR circles) individuals invovled or leading the group. The aim of the project is to give school talks to pre, primary, and secondary school kids, about animal rights. They are not in anyway secretive about it, and the site looks quite professional from the perspective of content etc.

As mentioned, they have given talks to schools, at varying different levels, and some of them have been published on line. The links to some of the material are enclosed below, which include a powerpoint presentation, and an audio recording of the session. Kudos to the organisation for at least being open about both of these.

The links to the sessions are Dublin's Vegan Animal Rights Bulletin: Dublin Animal Rights School Talk, Jan 2013

I would encourage people to have a look and a listen (although the audio recording is quite long at 1 hr 16 minutes), to get their own opinion.

The presentation was created and given by Roger Yates, a UCD lecturer, with some history and background that would be of concern to many. According to his wiki page, he was a former Press Officer for a section of the ALF in the UK, was sentenced and served 4 years in jail when police raided a house he was in, and found evidence of incendary devices etc. I will say no more than that, and leave people to do their own further research on him if they wish.

In addition to Roger, the group presenting the talk also included Bernie Wright (a prominant animal rights advocate, again, I will say no more, and leave people to google and research her further if they wish), and a guy from Vegan Ireland by the name of Rob (didnt catch his second name).

There are a multitude of animal rights groupings in ireland, and roger and bernie seem to be invovled in a significant number of them, and as I understand they are also heavily involved in Vegan Ireland..

The presentation I understand was intially requested to be around fur farming, I am not sure where it originated from, but fur farming ended up being a relatively small part of the session, which mostly concentrated on animal rights. A signifcant amount of time was given on the benefits of veganism, including the benefits of a vegan diet, and the dangers/risk of a non vegan diet. As far as I am aware, none of the grouping giving the presentation were dieticians etc,.

I will give some quotes and references from the audio session, for information. I have tried not to take anything out of context, and the audio session is abvoe for anyone interested to make sure they can see for themselves, but I have highlighted a number of issues that I thibnk are worrying that were said or discussed.

They are not word for word, some are just references, and some are actual quotes:-

Roger Yates:- Every sec 3,000 animals are slaughtered for meat! (conservative estimate)
Roger Yates :-Big industrial enterprise where we kill animals in great numbers
Roger Yates discusses the "Animal Holocost", and references a number of individuals, youtibe clips and books, such as "Holocost on your plate,"avid Sztybel, the "Holocost comparison project (tells people to google it and provides youtube link),

Roger Yates quotes Isac Singer, victim of holocost who escaped, who said all people to aninmals are Nazis.
Roger Yates quotes Theodore odono (not sure if spelling is correct), and exiled german Jew, who said "Auswitch begins whenever someone looks at a slaughter house, and thinks they are only animals."
As long as their are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields

The final holocaust reference, which I beleive is Rogers own comparison, is where he says the comparison is innacurate because “Animal holocaust, not very accurate, because Nazis were trying to eradicate jews and other groups, such as jews, gypsies, homosexuals, AND THOSE THEY REGARDED AS INFERIOR.. With animals we do not want to eradicate them, we breed them to exploit them, so thats where the animal holocaust comparison falls down a little bit”

Roger Yates:- Some people have a problem emphasising with people, and with animals. US police dept link between people who abuse animals, and graduate to other things.

Roger YatesProblem for veganism is not nutrition, and not health. Veganism is one of the most healthy diets you can have

Lot of vegans involved in extreme sports, vegans tend to win. A lot of triathletes are vegan, carl lewis was on vegan diet when training.

B12 SUPPLEMENT ISSUE. Most people say b12 is derived from meat, but it is from bacteria it comes from, and the reason B12 is in meat, is because meat is rotting flesh, bull of bacteria!

Youtube home project, watch it, it is about the environment and our impact on the world.
In the home project they say that our planet has got 10 years left, that means that your not going to get to be parents probably


It means the children now being born are not going to get the chance to be parents unless we do something about it.

Stealing milk from baby cows, Kill them at birth or put them into veal units.


Some other quotes, not from Roger, but I think from Bernie, its difficult to tell at times, so apologies if I am wrong on this

Most people that care about animals are vegan or vegetarian.
People feel strongly about abortion, and not about animals

I went vegetarian first because I didn’t know about the dairy industry and the cruelty involved in that.


I think these words were from the guy called Rod:-

cheap leather is cat and dog leather from china!!
Plants don’t feel pain!! If you chase a cauliflower will it run away ?
Soya milk, tastes better than the milk that causes problems, and diseases.
Most athletes now turning to a plant based diet.
Milk is the cause of a lot of diseases in modern society, diabetes, heart disease, asthma, exzema, I drank a lot of milk when I was young and suffer from exzema.


I will not colour the thread by outlining my own concerns just yet, I would rather people place their own views down first.
 
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Sync

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I'm not convinced of the wisdom of allowing a convicted criminal hang around school children at the best of times, regardless of what they're pushing.

If he's there to specifically make clear to them that some people view eating animals as wrong, that both points of view deserve respect and that no one should break the law under any circumstances (Be they breeding animals for food and clothes or protesting the breeding of animals for food and clothes), then I don't really have an issue with that message. If he's there to demonise one side then that wouldn't seem appropriate.
 
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goosebump

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Get over yourself.

All sorts of groups present at schools. If you want to provide balance, form a Hunters Alliance or something and take a couple of dead fox carcasses in for the kids to look at.
 

wexfordman

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Get over yourself.

All sorts of groups present at schools. If you want to provide balance, form a Hunters Alliance or something and take a couple of dead fox carcasses in for the kids to look at.


The presentation had nothing to do with hunting whatsoever, so why would I do that ?

And all sorts of groups may well present at schools, so is this a concern, how are they assessed, how are the approved etc?
 
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drummed

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People who are university lecturers are surely supposed to be giving the students a balanced and considered education. This guy is a zealot and how he gets a post at UCD is a mystery to me. And i don't feel the taxpayers should be paying him for furthering his own agenda.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

I'm not convinced of the wisdom of allowing a convicted criminal hang around school children at the best of times, regardless of what they're pushing.

If he's there to specifically make clear to them that some people view eating animals as wrong, that both points of view deserve respect and that no one should break the law under any circumstances (Be they breeding animals for food and clothes or protesting the breeding of animals for food and clothes), then I don't really have an issue with that message. If he's there to demonise one side then that wouldn't seem appropriate.
Oh dear, the obsession with dull and bland, politically correct fairness and balance, just in case the little dears might have to do a bit of critical thinking for themselves.
 

Trainwreck

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I'm not convinced of the wisdom of allowing a convicted criminal hang around school children at the best of times, regardless of what they're pushing.
Simply that. And a crime of violence.
 

drummed

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Oh dear, the obsession with dull and bland, politically correct fairness and balance, just in case the little dears might have to do a bit of critical thinking for themselves.
Lets wheel out a few Muslim terrorists so they can get a look at both sides of that argument then as well?
What part of convicted criminal don't you get? Should we have rapists speak to the kiddies as well?
 
D

Dylan2010

Oh dear, the obsession with dull and bland, politically correct fairness and balance, just in case the little dears might have to do a bit of critical thinking for themselves.
kids ought not be lobbied,that isnt education, I dont see there is anything more to it.
 

Dadaist

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The presentation had nothing to do with hunting whatsoever, so why would I do that ?
I haven't watched the clip, but if they are talking about, you know, animal rights and explaining the healthy alternative of a vegetarian diet, then this would all be positive eduction in my mind.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

Lets wheel out a few Muslim terrorists so they can get a look at both sides of that argument then as well?
What part of convicted criminal don't you get? Should we have rapists speak to the kiddies as well?
Great analogies!
 

The OD

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I think its deeply insensitive (at best) to equate the legitimate slaughter of animals for food with the holocaust.

However, their push in the direction of the health benefits are interesting. How long before we see meat grown/cloned in vats? Will they still have an issue about that.

There is no doubt that massive animal cruelty exists in this world, however, the cruelest thing I have ever witnessed was a couple of female lions eating a conscious, screaming zebra alive. Should we go shoot all them nasty lions for being so cruel?
 

stopdoingstuff

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I wouldn't want them in my kids' schools, but luckily I have never admitted paternity so I have no idea where they go to school.
 

drummed

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Great analogies!
Yes,i feel so. As you have no issue with criminals chatting to the kids what's you point? Or is it just some criminals? Which ones then?
 
D

Deleted member 17573

kids ought not be lobbied,that isnt education, I dont see there is anything more to it.
They're lobbied in every social interaction in which they engage, they're lobbied on the net and through TV. And when it comes to animal rights as soon as they're told no more burghers, I wouldn't like to be lobbying them. It's Roger who'll need protection.
 

wexfordman

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Lets not concentrate too much on the history, it is important, but what of the message that is being pushed, is it right, is it balanced, is it accurate, should be be approved, reviewed by dept of education etc ?

Personally, I think a group with such a narrow and focussed agenda, cant possibly give a fair unbalanced view, and need to be carefull about what type of information they are pushing out to young minds.
 

SilverSpurs

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Funny how these will be the same people who will demand skyfairy merchants are not allowed preach to kids in school.
 

The Field Marshal

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Get over yourself.

All sorts of groups present at schools. If you want to provide balance, form a Hunters Alliance or something and take a couple of dead fox carcasses in for the kids to look at.
All sorts of groups like to hunt.
Some friends of mine recently caught and killed a Dolphin that had wandered up river.

I was asked to taste the meat and found it rather attractive.
[Greenpeace liars spread the rumour that Dolphins are full of mercury but studies have shown such concentrations as do exist are
no different to those in other fish].

There is nothing like the thrill of hunting big game.


Oh dear, the obsession with dull and bland, politically correct fairness and balance, just in case the little dears might have to do a bit of critical thinking for themselves.
Yes.
They should be brought on Elephant and Rhino hunts.

Thats difficult in Ireland so the nearest is Deer and Seal Hunting.
 

Cato

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I'd prefer that ethics be taught in schools: primary and secondary levels.

The question of animal rights should form a part of the curriculum (including the non-AR but highly provocative view of Peter Singer).

I don't think that the emotive approach, as laid out in the OP, is an appropriate way of discussing it with students, particularly if there is no general grounding in ethics beforehand.

As a by the way, logic should also form a part of every child's education.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

Yes,i feel so. As you have no issue with criminals chatting to the kids what's you point? Or is it just some criminals? Which ones then?
Use your judgement - what do you want, a simple universal law? The only thing that bothers the Tory wing of P.ie is, not that they might be incited to violence, but that they might embrace the idea of protest.
 

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