Another cultural enrichment

THR

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This news item has dominated the news here in Finland for the past few days. A pizzeria in the centre of Finland's second city Tampere burned down and as the pizzeria was placed on the ground floor and there were apartment flats above, as a result three completely innocent people died because of smoke and carbon monoxide.

The pizzeria was run by Kurdish people and some politicians were very quick to organise campaigns against racism as they thought the fire was racially motivated. Those politicians soon looked like fools as it emerged what any sensible person thought from the onset that the fire was just an attempt at insurance-fraud.

Helsingin Sanomat - International Edition - Home


Four Men Remanded for Tampere Fire | News | YLE Uutiset | yle.fi

However, many politicians now are more concerned about the spread of racism rather than the death of three people. It truly speaks volumes about a person who decides to burn his business-premises in the middle of the night in hope of insurance payments knowing fully well that a lot of people live in the same building. How callous can one become? And yet the Finnish politicians are repeating the same old mantra how this was an isolated incident which it was but every time a Finn kills someone then it is perfectly acceptable to say that Finns are violent alcoholic thugs and no-one raises an eyebrow about a gross generalisation.
 


FutureTaoiseach

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I think it underlines the worship of the EU political-elites at the altar of Political-Correctness - one characteristic of which is to assume our societies are racist and that immigrants are automatically 'victims'. There is a vested interest to make such assumptions, as it lines the pockets of quangos, aspiring-quangos, the legal-profession etc, as well as providing opportunities for politicians to appoint their friends to such quangos. Are those kind of quangos common in Finland THR?
 

Don Herron

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This news item has dominated the news here in Finland for the past few days. A pizzeria in the centre of Finland's second city Tampere burned down and as the pizzeria was placed on the ground floor and there were apartment flats above, as a result three completely innocent people died because of smoke and carbon monoxide.

The pizzeria was run by Kurdish people and some politicians were very quick to organise campaigns against racism as they thought the fire was racially motivated. Those politicians soon looked like fools as it emerged what any sensible person thought from the onset that the fire was just an attempt at insurance-fraud.

Helsingin Sanomat - International Edition - Home


Four Men Remanded for Tampere Fire | News | YLE Uutiset | yle.fi

However, many politicians now are more concerned about the spread of racism rather than the death of three people. It truly speaks volumes about a person who decides to burn his business-premises in the middle of the night in hope of insurance payments knowing fully well that a lot of people live in the same building. How callous can one become? And yet the Finnish politicians are repeating the same old mantra how this was an isolated incident which it was but every time a Finn kills someone then it is perfectly acceptable to say that Finns are violent alcoholic thugs and no-one raises an eyebrow about a gross generalisation.
And what was your motive for posting this racist thread? Would you have done the same if it were Finns who committed the arson?
 

locke

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I think it underlines the worship of the EU political-elites at the altar of Political-Correctness - one characteristic of which is to assume our societies are racist and that immigrants are automatically 'victims'. There is a vested interest to make such assumptions, as it lines the pockets of quangos, aspiring-quangos, the legal-profession etc, as well as providing opportunities for politicians to appoint their friends to such quangos. Are those kind of quangos common in Finland THR?
Take out the last sentence and that could be your reply to almost any thread.
 

Don Herron

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FutureTaoiseach

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Precisely; he is a racist.
No I am not and I don't have to justify myself to loony-Left PC-elites like you. You and the people in your signature deserve each other. :roll: You probably don't even live in this country judging by your facebook page.
 

reknaw

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I, too, wonder what your motive is in presenting this matter in such a tendentious way and wonder how well you have been following discussion of this tragic event in the Finnish media.:confused:

As a Finnish citizen who appreciates the fact that our society is founded on the rule of law and that all are generally equal before the law, I am happy that responsible officials and politicians have been quick to speak out in an attempt - fortunately successful - to prevent this incident stirring up racial conflict.:)

It was quite natural for them to condemn racist attacks when it initially seemed that the pizzeria owned by persons of foreign origin had been the target of an arson attack. Would anyone have preferred it if some or other politician on the lunatic fringe had said that was the way to deal with all of those foreigners?

Now that the police investigation, which was certainly conducted calmly and thoroughly, indicates that what was involved was probably an attempt at insurance fraud that went terribly wrong, the same officials and politicians who condemned racial attacks are just as determinedly urging people not to tar all foreigners with the same brush. The persons who commit such crimes could be of any nationality.

The perpetrators will be prosecuted with the same legal safeguards as anyone else and will be punished in the same way if found guilty.

I also challenge the following statement that you make in your OP, especially the part I have boldfaced: "And yet the Finnish politicians are repeating the same old mantra how this was an isolated incident which it was but every time a Finn kills someone then it is perfectly acceptable to say that Finns are violent alcoholic thugs and no-one raises an eyebrow about a gross generalisation."

Please name one Finnish politician or journalist who has ever made such a statement. I also challenge you to make that statement yourself in the company of sober educated Finns. I, for one, would never do so, both because it is grossly incorrect and because I don't want to make a laughing stock of myself and by extension Irish people.

To help you gain a deeper understanding of Finland, I suggest you read this document:

FINLEX ® - Ajantasainen lainsäädäntö: 11.6.1999/731

Especially this part:

Perusoikeudet [Fundamental Rights]

6 § [Section 6]
Yhdenvertaisuus [Equality]

Ihmiset ovat yhdenvertaisia lain edessä. [People are equal before the law]

Ketään ei saa ilman hyväksyttävää perustetta asettaa eri asemaan sukupuolen, iän, alkuperän, kielen, uskonnon, vakaumuksen, mielipiteen, terveydentilan, vammaisuuden tai muun henkilöön liittyvän syyn perusteella. [No one may without an acceptable reason be placed in an unequal position on the basis of gender, age, origin, language, religion, conviction, opinion, state of health or other reason pertaining to the person]

There are, sadly, quite enough obsessive xenophobes à la the excessively optimistically named Future Taoiseach in Finland, but fortunately they remain on the fringes and have little power. I suggest you have little to do with them and instead associate with the great majority of people here who are fair-minded and balanced in their outlook.;)
 

Twin Towers

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Have the Finns been consulted on the question of immigration or has it been foisted upon them without mandate? Do your politicians just keep their gobs shut on the subject like the trash we have in our parliament?
 

FutureTaoiseach

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reknaw said:
There are, sadly, quite enough obsessive xenophobes à la the excessively optimistically named Future Taoiseach in Finland, but fortunately they remain on the fringes and have little power. I suggest you have little to do with them and instead associate with the great majority of people here who are fair-minded and balanced in their outlook.;)
I reject your characterisation of me as "xenophobic", which is increasingly a term devised for the purposes of silencing debate on immigration and European integration. The Eurocrats pushing for Lisbon also accused its opponents of being "xenophobic".
 

liamfoley

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And what was your motive for posting this racist thread? Would you have done the same if it were Finns who committed the arson?
Racist? How exactly?
 

liamfoley

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No I am not and I don't have to justify myself to loony-Left PC-elites like you. You and the people in your signature deserve each other. :roll: You probably don't even live in this country judging by your facebook page.
The facebook page is hilarious. In one place it reads "im sick and tired of the british racit immgration police comming into our communiteys and comming and takeing our friends and familys in the dusk of dawn
they deport people most times back to placese of danger
such as iraq where the british gouvermetn says its safe to deport people back there yet they need bullet proof jackets THATS SAFE NOT
smash the racist immigration controls NOW"

A rant against what they consider racism but can't even spell 'racist.' I just thought the person was stupid but hen thought no one could be that stupid. This facebook page must be a fake one.
 

Don Herron

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The facebook page is hilarious. In one place it reads "im sick and tired of the british racit immgration police comming into our communiteys and comming and takeing our friends and familys in the dusk of dawn
they deport people most times back to placese of danger
such as iraq where the british gouvermetn says its safe to deport people back there yet they need bullet proof jackets THATS SAFE NOT
smash the racist immigration controls NOW"

A rant against what they consider racism but can't even spell 'racist.' I just thought the person was stupid but hen thought no one could be that stupid. This facebook page must be a fake one.
So a few spelling mistakes by a person that doesn't have English as their first language and you consider this "hilarious". This reveals a lot about you Liam.
 

Panopticon

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Have the Finns been consulted on the question of immigration or has it been foisted upon them without mandate? Do your politicians just keep their gobs shut on the subject like the trash we have in our parliament?
Almost every politician has been elected on a non-racist, non-repatriationist ticket. If you don't like it, run as the racist candidate. See how many votes you get. The ICP don't get many votes, which suggests that when it comes to actual choices that matter rather than cheap talk, most people are reasonably content with the immigration status quo.
 

Twin Towers

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Almost every politician has been elected on a non-racist, non-repatriationist ticket. If you don't like it, run as the racist candidate. See how many votes you get. The ICP don't get many votes, which suggests that when it comes to actual choices that matter rather than cheap talk, most people are reasonably content with the immigration status quo.
Calling 'racist' at every turn is infantile, as you well know. A conspiracy of silence amongst so called public representatives, is just that - a conspiracy. You kid yourself if you think conspiring 'not to discuss' qualifies us as a democracy. It demeans us and our democracy is a fraud.
 

owedtojoy

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This news item has dominated the news here in Finland for the past few days. A pizzeria in the centre of Finland's second city Tampere burned down and as the pizzeria was placed on the ground floor and there were apartment flats above, as a result three completely innocent people died because of smoke and carbon monoxide.

The pizzeria was run by Kurdish people and some politicians were very quick to organise campaigns against racism as they thought the fire was racially motivated. Those politicians soon looked like fools as it emerged what any sensible person thought from the onset that the fire was just an attempt at insurance-fraud.

Helsingin Sanomat - International Edition - Home


Four Men Remanded for Tampere Fire | News | YLE Uutiset | yle.fi

However, many politicians now are more concerned about the spread of racism rather than the death of three people. It truly speaks volumes about a person who decides to burn his business-premises in the middle of the night in hope of insurance payments knowing fully well that a lot of people live in the same building. How callous can one become? And yet the Finnish politicians are repeating the same old mantra how this was an isolated incident which it was but every time a Finn kills someone then it is perfectly acceptable to say that Finns are violent alcoholic thugs and no-one raises an eyebrow about a gross generalisation.
We could do without the heavily racially-overtoned commentary.

Would it not be more reasonable, if you wanted to draw attention to this story, just to post where the relevant information was available, and let us make up our own minds?

As it is, how are you any different from these Finnish politicians? You are just using the deaths of innocent people to score cheap political points. If you had any real respect for the dead, you would not have posted at all.
 

reknaw

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Have the Finns been consulted on the question of immigration or has it been foisted upon them without mandate? Do your politicians just keep their gobs shut on the subject like the trash we have in our parliament?
If by "consultation" you mean something like a referendum, that is not the Finnish way. There have only been two referendums since independence was achieved in 1917, and both were consultative only. One concerned the abolition of prohibition ("yes" by a landslide) and the other joining the EU ("yes" by a fairly narrow margin.) Voters know what powers they are entrusting to their representatives when they choose them in elections and it is unlikely that anyone will vote for a politician with whose policies and professed intentions they do not agree. That is what representative democracy is about.:rolleyes:

Decisions concerning immigration are taken by the national parliament, whose members are accountable to the people in elections. Naturally, the parliamentarians are aware of the view of all categories of citizens, from the local xenophobes like Tulevaisuuden Pääministeri (future taoiseach) to those who welcome fresh blood and labour that will likely be sorely needed in the years ahead as the (indigenous) population ages, and take them duly into account in their overall assessment.:cool:

Nothing is, as you quaintly put it, "foisted on the people without a mandate". The views of the political parties and individual politicians are well known and anyone who wishes to know more can easily find out.:)

Incidentally, the number of Finnish-born persons living in other countries is considerably greater than the number of foreign-born people living in Finland. I believe the same imbalance applies to Ireland.:lol:
 

evercloserunion

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If it was white people that burned down their own shop for the insurance would you be blaming Europe?
 

Freedom front

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We have had enough Diversity for Now, its placing a huge demand on limited resources and services affecting our own citizens at the lower pay levels disproportionaly
 

reknaw

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If it was white people that burned down their own shop for the insurance would you be blaming Europe?
Good point.;)

And it's not as if something like that never happened anywhere.

Indeed, if THR knew a little more about the culture and history of the country he now lives in, he would be familiar with the old Finnish joke about economic indicators. In it, alongside the unemployment rate, bankruptcies, declining sales, exports and so on, "sahapalot" (sawmill fires) is listed as one of the key indicators of how badly things are going.:lol::lol::lol:
 


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