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Another day ...

Malcolm Redfellow

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Moving swiftly on from Phil Collins, this is a plea for just a bit more depth, a hint of a wider appreciation, in some posters' comments.

To be candid, I'm really griping about those who get their stuff from (very) partial sources, barely bother to process or recycle it, and offer it up to us as A Groatsworth of Good Councel for a Peny.

To be precise, I'm irritated by turgid rubbish. For a recent example:
Academic teaching wrt ww2 history is delivering the story according to the victors, who paint themselves as angels while painting the Germans as devils.
That, believe or not, is meant to have some relevance to April 1916.

Now, I know I'm accused, and quite properly, of being "off-topic". That is usually because I'm trying and failing to see the wider context of a post or a thread.

All of which, so far, is peripheral and inconsequential. So here's a precise formulation: 7th December 1941. "Aha!", you declare, "a Day that will Live in Infamy" (except that phrase properly belongs to the next day).

Nothing is quite as simple as it at first seems

The attack on Pearl Harbor started (it says here) at 7:48 a.m. There's an alternative, and illuminating, chronology here. To contextualise that: Hawaii is ten hours before UK time. Even that doesn't work for 1941, because the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act, 1940 extended "summer time" all year (and in April 1941 Britain got "double summer time"). The news went onto the American national wire services, so the US East Coast heard around 2:25 pm. Across the nation, radio stations interrupted normal transmissions with a "flash", causing an avalanche of complaints — listeners to WOR New York were affronted it interfered with the football game commentary (justifiably so: New York Giants versus the Brooklyn Dodgers was serious business); among the faithful, KFEL Denver cancelled the religious hour.

Until then the main New York news was the decision, made on the previous day, to build an international airport at Queens. Mayor Fiorello Laguardia wanted it named after the local golf-course, so it became Idlewild. We know it as JFK.

There was a major scandal brewing. First the Chicago Tribune, then the rest of the isolationist and "America First" media had got hold of a document, Rainbow Five, from the War Plans Division. This amounted to a bit of contingency planning over the possibility of the US being involved in a war against both Germany and Japan. To the isolationist lobby this was proof positive that Roosevelt was a war-monger. Clearly the intention of someone was to de-rail the $8 billion supplementary defence bill. By December 1941, the US defence budget had already risen from $3.6B in 1940 to $5.1B: the prognosis was it would be $12.6B by mid-1942.

7:48 a.m. in the Hawaii–Aleutian Time Zone would be 6:48 p.m. in Britain. Churchill first heard the news of Pearl Harbor from his butler, who had been listening to the 9 p.m. BBC radio news. Hitler was only informed around midnight. Such delays seem incredible, in these days of 24/7/365 news.

What else was happening around the world (and the War) that day?
  • The Japanese bombardment of the intended landing sites in Malaya had begun two hours before the Pearl Harbor raid. Japanese bombers were en route to Singapore, Hong Kong, Guam and Wake Island.
  • In Shanghai, it was already early morning of the 8th December when Japanese troops entered the International Settlement, captured the US gunboat Wake.
  • On the Eastern Front, the temperature was -13∘ At 3 a.m., local time, on the morning of 5th December, Zhukov had launched his shock troops against the Moscow-Volga Canal and the town of Klin, and began the Red Army counter-offensive against the pincer movement on Moscow.
  • Further north, General Kirill Meretskov directed the Red Army to reduce the salient Army Group North had achieved at Tikhvin (which had cut the rail line to Lake Ladoga). With this done, the route to Leningrad was shortened by a third, and supplies to the besieged city rose from just 360 tons a day to 1,500-2,000 tons.
  • Near Łódź, Chelmno — Vernichtungslager Kulmhof — was ready to open for trade. On the following day, 700 Jews from Kolo, 80 at a time, were gassed in five vans.
  • In North Africa that weekend the Afrika Corps and the Italian Motorised Corps were pulling out of Cyrenaica. Len Deighton (more observant readers may spot this post follows his plan) has an anecdote, borrowed from Barrie Pitt, Crucible of War:
    ...an extended battlefield where Indians, Italians, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, Germans and British were milling about in a confusion fomented by the captured vehicles used by both sides. On the afternoon of 7 December the adjutant of one of Rommel's reconnaissance battalions spotted the unique profile of a German 8-wheel armoured car, and drove alongside the column shouting in German and then in Italian.

    There followed a moment's conversational hiatus, broken eventually when the driver, dust-covered and naked to the waist, looked down and shouted irritably: 'Oh, piss off mate ... for Christ's sake!' And he did.
So, choose your day, and explain some of its complications and ramifications.
 
Last edited:


cnocpm

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
4,841
Moving swiftly on from Phil Collins, this is a plea for just a bit more depth, a hint of a wider appreciation, in some posters' comments.

To be candid, I'm really griping about those who get their stuff from (very) partial sources, barely bother to process or recycle it, and offer it up to us as A Groatsworth of Good Councel for a Peny.

To be precise, I'm irritated by turgid rubbish. For a recent example:


That, believe or not, is meant to have some relevance to April 1916.

Now, I know I'm accused, and quite properly, of being "off-topic". That is usually because I'm trying and failing to see the wider context of a post or a thread.

All of which, so far, is peripheral and inconsequential. So here's a precise formulation: 7th December 1941. "Aha!", you declare, "a Day that will Live in Infamy" (except that phrase properly belongs to the next day).

Nothing is quite as simple as it at first seems

The attack on Pearl Harbor started (it says here) at 7:48 a.m. There's an alternative, and illuminating, chronology here. To contextualise that: Hawaii is ten hours before UK time. Even that doesn't work for 1941, because the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act, 1940 extended "summer time" all year (and in April 1941 Britain got "double summer time"). The news went onto the American national wire services, so the US East Coast heard around 2:25 pm. Across the nation, radio stations interrupted normal transmissions with a "flash", causing an avalanche of complaints — listeners to WOR New York were affronted it interfered with the football game commentary (justifiably so: New York Giants versus the Brooklyn Dodgers was serious business); among the faithful, KFEL Denver cancelled the religious hour.

Until then the main New York news was the decision, made on the previous day, to build an international airport at Queens. Mayor Fiorello Laguardia wanted it named after the local golf-course, so it became Idlewild. We know it as JFK.

There was a major scandal brewing. First the Chicago Tribune, then the rest of the isolationist and "America First" media had got hold of a document, Rainbow Five, from the War Plans Division. This amounted to a bit of contingency planning over the possibility of the US being involved in a war against both Germany and Japan. To the isolationist lobby this was proof positive that Roosevelt was a war-monger. Clearly the intention of someone was to de-rail the $8 billion supplementary defence bill. By December 1941, the US defence budget had already risen from $3.6B in 1940 to $5.1B: the prognosis was it would be $12.6B by mid-1942.

7:48 a.m. in the Hawaii–Aleutian Time Zone would be 6:48 p.m. in Britain. Churchill first heard the news of Pearl Harbor from his butler, who had been listening to the 9 p.m. BBC radio news. Hitler was only informed around midnight. Such delays seem incredible, in these days of 24/7/365 news.

What else was happening around the world (and the War) that day?
  • The Japanese bombardment of the intended landing sites in Malaya had begun two hours before the Pearl Harbor raid. Japanese bombers were en route to Singapore, Hong Kong, Guam and Wake Island.
  • In Shanghai, it was already early morning of the 8th December when Japanese troops entered the International Settlement, captured the US gunboat Wake.
  • On the Eastern Front, the temperature was -13∘ At 3 a.m., local time, on the morning of 5th December, Zhukov had launched his shock troops against the Moscow-Volga Canal and the town of Klin, and began the Red Army counter-offensive against the pincer movement on Moscow.
  • Further north, General Kirill Meretskov directed the Red Army to reduce the salient Army Group North had achieved at Tikhvin (which had cut the rail line to Lake Ladoga). With this done, the route to Leningrad was shortened by a third, and supplies to the besieged city rose from just 360 tons a day to 1,500-2,000 tons.
  • Near Łódź, Chelmno — Vernichtungslager Kulmhof — was ready to open for trade. On the following day, 700 Jews from Kolo, 80 at a time, were gassed in five vans.
  • In North Africa that weekend the Afrika Corps and the Italian Motorised Corps were pulling out of Cyrenaica. Len Deighton (more observant readers may spot this post follows his plan) has an anecdote, borrowed from Barrie Pitt, Crucible of War:
So, choose your day, and explain some of its complications and ramifications.
Related piece on the Giants/Dodgers game.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/sunday-afternoon-story-tuffy-leemans-day-dec-7-1941-chapter-201-article-1.526727
 

Zapped(CAPITALISMROTS)

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daxxdrake
[video=youtube;hFzEA7ZAfZQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFzEA7ZAfZQ[/video] :cool:
 

Boy M5

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Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
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September 12 1951 - the World's luckiest punter & resident of Kitchen presses Bartholomew Ahern was born in Dublin.



His mother Julia was from Cork.


Thinking of which another person from Cork Owen O'Callaghan was born on 28 August 1940.
On that day Winston Churchill visited Dover to look across the channel (3 months before in May he'd proposed a union between Britain & France) & visited RAF Manston (one of the closest RAF bases to France). That night Coventry & London were bombed.
 

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