Another Elephant Conservationist murdered

Karloff

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One of the most celebrated defenders of the threatened African Elephant Wayne Lotter has been murdered in Tanzania.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/17/leading-elephant-conservationist-ivory-shot-dead-in-tanzania

Wayne Lotter, 51, was shot on Wednesday evening in the Masaki district of the city of Dar es Salaam. The wildlife conservationist was being driven from the airport to his hotel when his taxi was stopped by another vehicle. Two men, one armed with a gun opened his car door and shot him.

Lotter was a director and co-founder of the PAMS Foundation, an NGO that provides conservation and anti-poaching support to communities and governments in Africa.

The PAMS Foundation funded and supported Tanzania’s elite anti-poaching National and Transnational Serious Crimes Investigation Unit (NTSCIU) which was responsible for arrests of major ivory traffickers including Yang Feng Glan, the so-called “Queen of Ivory” and several other notorious elephant poachers. Since 2012, the unit has arrested more than 2,000 poachers and ivory traffickers and has a conviction rate of 80%.
What can be done to save the elephant and other endangered species? Should we treat this very coordinated threat as international terrorism? I think we need to. Not only with it be an incalculable loss to biodiversity science and the richness of the Earth and natural history if these animals are lost but it will be a crying shame in it's own right. These are intelligent, sensitive and beautiful creatures with a rich social life and strong family bonds. When we look at elephants we can see human communities - the similarities between humans and other animals are striking but with the elephant are illuminating. The explosion in farming practices linked to Western aid is also devastating natural habitats in Africa. So many powerful and vested interests coming together to ensure the sterilisation of the continent.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/13/tanzanias-ghost-safari-how-western-aid-contributed-to-the-decline-of-a-wildlife-haven
 


roc_

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One of the most celebrated defenders of the threatened African Elephant Wayne Lotter has been murdered in Tanzania.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/17/leading-elephant-conservationist-ivory-shot-dead-in-tanzania



What can be done to save the elephant and other endangered species? Should we treat this very coordinated threat as international terrorism? I think we need to. Not only with it be an incalculable loss to biodiversity science and the richness of the Earth and natural history if these animals are lost but it will be a crying shame in it's own right. These are intelligent, sensitive and beautiful creatures with a rich social life and strong family bonds. When we look at elephants we can see human communities - the similarities between humans and other animals are striking but with the elephant are illuminating. The explosion in farming practices linked to Western aid is also devastating natural habitats in Africa. So many powerful and vested interests coming together to ensure the sterilisation of the continent.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/13/tanzanias-ghost-safari-how-western-aid-contributed-to-the-decline-of-a-wildlife-haven
You know quite well what actually comprises terrorism in our world. What are its characteristics, and why it is important to delineate those kind of characteristics as terrorism.

It is lower even than usual the device of emotional blackmail you have set upon today to try and push your insidious agenda.
 

Clanrickard

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You know quite well what actually comprises terrorism in our world. What are its characteristics, and why it is important to delineate those kind of characteristics as terrorism.

It is lower even than usual the device of emotional blackmail you have set upon today to try and push your insidious agenda.
That's quite a vicious response there roc.
 

Niall996

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One of the most celebrated defenders of the threatened African Elephant Wayne Lotter has been murdered in Tanzania.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/17/leading-elephant-conservationist-ivory-shot-dead-in-tanzania



What can be done to save the elephant and other endangered species? Should we treat this very coordinated threat as international terrorism? I think we need to. Not only with it be an incalculable loss to biodiversity science and the richness of the Earth and natural history if these animals are lost but it will be a crying shame in it's own right. These are intelligent, sensitive and beautiful creatures with a rich social life and strong family bonds. When we look at elephants we can see human communities - the similarities between humans and other animals are striking but with the elephant are illuminating. The explosion in farming practices linked to Western aid is also devastating natural habitats in Africa. So many powerful and vested interests coming together to ensure the sterilisation of the continent.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/13/tanzanias-ghost-safari-how-western-aid-contributed-to-the-decline-of-a-wildlife-haven
There are such extremes instances of elephant overpopulation in parts of Africa that mass culling looks like it will have to be brought back unfortunately. Which is a very difficult thing to do for the shooters and very traumatic but they seem to have no option.
 

roc_

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That's quite a vicious response there roc.
There may well be a conversation to be had on whether assassination as a tool used by the state to avert attacks on citizens, or mass scale terrorist atrocities, or human rights tragedies, is acceptable or not.

But we all know well Karloff has a strong "anti-imperialist", "anti-US" "anti-Zionist" agenda (and even regularly he makes outright, overt statements about Jews in particular, that might be drawn directly from 1930's era Nazi propaganda.)

So no doubt, the killing of elephants, and the war being waged between opposing interests, is an emotional, and important one.

But, it is quite obvious from what the odious Karloff wrote above, and what he has written on here before, what he is trying to do. - It's a despicable, dishonest tactic. - He wants assassination declared as "international terrorism", and to push that agenda he is wielding in this latest post of his a tragedy of the natural world that widely (and rightly) pulls on heart-strings.


The source of this calamity is America. This is the country that has been destroying nation after nation without mercy - using every method from outright invasion, torture, assassins, terrorism, sectarianism, sanctions...
... It's revealing that when someone mentions the terrorist tactic of assassination as a solution your first thought is of taking out Assad. Syrians need a government and stability first and foremost, you would impose control by assassin upon them. Murder them one by one until they agree with some third party's opinion of things (be that Russia or the US all the same).
... 3,135 killed by security forces in the West Bank and Gaza including 627 aged under 18, 181 killed in extrajudicial executions and 288 (including at least 29 aged under 18) killed in the course of these assassinations...
... Then there are all the assassinations and the mass torture...
You have suggested that assassination is a justifiable tactic agreeing with another poster, then you denied it later. You must stick to what you say.
Extrajudicial assassination of people in order to lower the murder rate eh?
When you live under occupation whatever leadership you have is also factored into that occupation. The Palestinians are occupied by their own leaders as surely as they are by the Israelis. The leaders liaise with Israel to see what it's needs are - they do not want to upset it because Israel has long conducted a policy of assassination and there are some Palestinian leaders who would betray their own people in a heartbeat....
There is nobody to make peace with, the 'moderate rebels' are a CIA contrivance... I was reading the other day about a US-UK regime change that happened in Congo 60 years ago (with a few assassinations it began), the result of that was six decades of genocide...
The reign of terror unfortunately continues... death squads during the Reagan regime, yet now we are with the Democrat Obama and the same method of the coup and the death squad endures... poor indigenous versus mobile elite business interests and predatory capitalists...
 

razorblade

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Absolute evil scumbags, the Elephant is an endangered species both African and Asian, they need all the help and protection they can get, or they will sadly be another species, that will have disappeared from this planet.
 

*EPIC SUCCESS*

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There may well be a conversation to be had on whether assassination as a tool used by the state to avert attacks on citizens, or mass scale terrorist atrocities, or human rights tragedies, is acceptable or not.

But we all know well Karloff has a strong "anti-imperialist", "anti-US" "anti-Zionist" agenda (and even regularly he makes outright, overt statements about Jews in particular, that might be drawn directly from 1930's era Nazi propaganda.)

So no doubt, the killing of elephants, and the war being waged between opposing interests, is an emotional, and important one.

But, it is quite obvious from what the odious Karloff wrote above, and what he has written on here before, what he is trying to do. - It's a despicable, dishonest tactic. - He wants assassination declared as "international terrorism", and to push that agenda he is wielding in this latest post of his a tragedy of the natural world that widely (and rightly) pulls on heart-strings.










Translation - I'm playing the man, not the ball/shoot the messenger.

Makes for poor reading to be honest. I could not care less about the posters views on other topics, I am reading this one.
 

The Field Marshal

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The motive behind this killing may have nothing at all to do with the victims environmental agitation.

I quite like elephants and believe the threat to their future is wildly exaggerated by vested interests.

Indeed the mass burning of ivory is nothing but a spectacularly ugly crime against humanity and art.
 

GDPR

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There may well be a conversation to be had on whether assassination as a tool used by the state to avert attacks on citizens, or mass scale terrorist atrocities, or human rights tragedies, is acceptable or not.

But we all know well Karloff has a strong "anti-imperialist", "anti-US" "anti-Zionist" agenda (and even regularly he makes outright, overt statements about Jews in particular, that might be drawn directly from 1930's era Nazi propaganda.)

So no doubt, the killing of elephants, and the war being waged between opposing interests, is an emotional, and important one.

But, it is quite obvious from what the odious Karloff wrote above, and what he has written on here before, what he is trying to do. - It's a despicable, dishonest tactic. - He wants assassination declared as "international terrorism", and to push that agenda he is wielding in this latest post of his a tragedy of the natural world that widely (and rightly) pulls on heart-strings.










Riddle me this roc_; how on earth could extra-judicial assassination NOT count as terrorism?
 

The Field Marshal

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Riddle me this roc_; how on earth could extra-judicial assassination NOT count as terrorism?
It suits your earth worship pagan agenda to describe this killing in that exaggerated emotive manner.

For all anybody knows it could be a jealous husband.

[BTW have you been to confession yet for all those lies that you make up about people?]
 

GDPR

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It suits your earth worship pagan agenda to describe this killing in that exaggerated emotive manner.

For all anybody knows it could be a jealous husband.

[BTW have you been to confession yet for all those lies that you make up about people?]
What "Pagan Earth worship"? Would you say that King David the ancestor of God, St Paul the Apostle to the Nations, St Isaac the Syrian and St Francis of Assisi to have been Pagan Earth worshippers?

I'm not having anything to with the Priests in my Parish so if I want to go to Confession or Mass now I have to drive to the SSPX.

I'm not sure also what lies you are referring to.
 

The Field Marshal

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What "Pagan Earth worship"? Would you say that King David the ancestor of God, St Paul the Apostle to the Nations, St Isaac the Syrian and St Francis of Assisi to have been Pagan Earth worshippers?
Any person who seriously ascribes personality to the earth [as you have done] is an earth worshipper.

Anybody who inverts the order, ordained by God, of the earth made for the benefit of humans is an earth worshiper.

Apostate and anti pope Bergoglio has published these heresies as well in Laudato Si..

It is seriously pagan in essence and an affront to the true Deity and to all humanity.

I'm not having anything to with the Priests in my Parish so if I want to go to Confession or Mass now I have to drive to the SSPX.
Off you go.
I'm not sure also what lies you are referring to.
.

You invented complete lies about my eating habits , my attitude to fasting and also about many of my religious/political beliefs which, because you either do not understand them or because I have not specifically articulated them, you have then twisted, distorted and invented.
 

roc_

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Translation - I'm playing the man, not the ball/shoot the messenger.

Makes for poor reading to be honest. I could not care less about the posters views on other topics, I am reading this one.
You should care.

Karloff could not give a flying f*** about elephants. He descended on this story for two reasons.

1. The element of assassination in the story. - Obviously his declared enemies, the US, UK, Israel and allies are using assassination more and more to thwart terrorism and avert larger human rights catastrophes. - He wants to associate these state governments with these organised poachers who people instinctively loathe and hate, and goes further by suggesting that such activities ought by rights be categorised as "international terrorism".

2. He asserts that "the West", and its representatives are allying themselves with these highly organised and well-funded gangs of poachers to "ensure the sterilisation of the continent" of Africa. He wants to associate these poachers with his declared enemies in the West, and suggest that their purposes are really one.

Karloff merely saw in this story those above two devices that he saw he could employ to make these kind of associations. He would have not have been interested in the story otherwise. If you were familiar with the poster, you would have understood these emphases he makes in the OP in their proper light. They are quite obvious.
 

GDPR

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You should care.

Karloff could not give a flying f*** about elephants. He descended on this story for two reasons.
.
roc_ Karloff has started threads before on ecological and animal welfare issues. This is something that from his posts he obviously deeply cares about. You really should stop reading Zionism and Jews into everything. It does seem to be true though that those who care about our Sister the Earth and her animal children also happen to be Anti-Imperialist.
 

The_SR

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You should care.

Karloff could not give a flying f*** about elephants. He descended on this story for two reasons.

1. The element of assassination in the story. - Obviously his declared enemies, the US, UK, Israel and allies are using assassination more and more to thwart terrorism and avert larger human rights catastrophes. - He wants to associate these state governments with these organised poachers who people instinctively loathe and hate, and goes further by suggesting that such activities ought by rights be categorised as "international terrorism".

2. He asserts that "the West", and its representatives are allying themselves with these highly organised and well-funded gangs of poachers to "ensure the sterilisation of the continent" of Africa. He wants to associate these poachers with his declared enemies in the West, and suggest that their purposes are really one.

Karloff merely saw in this story those above two devices that he saw he could employ to make these kind of associations. He would have not have been interested in the story otherwise. If you were familiar with the poster, you would have understood these emphases he makes in the OP in their proper light. They are quite obvious.
You need to back off. The thread stands on its merits.

If you see Zionism here that says more about you than the rest of us
 

The Field Marshal

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roc_ Karloff has started threads before on ecological and animal welfare issues. This is something that from his posts he obviously deeply cares about. You really should stop reading Zionism and Jews into everything. It does seem to be true though that those who care about our Sister the Earth and her animal children also happen to be Anti-Imperialist.
The heretical disease both you and apostate anti pope Jorge Bergoglio suffer from is called "pantheism" or "natural religion".

Very common in south American jungles.
 

GDPR

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The heretical disease both you and apostate anti pope Jorge Bergoglio suffer from is called "pantheism" or "natural religion".

Very common in south American jungles.
Our Sister is the Earth is a Creature and as such Essentially different from Her Uncreated Creator who alone deserves Worship.

Pantheism is the false belief that the God's Creation and God Himself are Essentially One.
 

The Field Marshal

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Our Sister is the Earth is a Creature and as such Essentially different from Her Uncreated Creator who alone deserves Worship.
That you believe the earth, an inanimate physical object, is a "creature" just proves your pagan outlook.


Pantheism is the false belief that the God's Creation and God Himself are Essentially One.
Pantheism is also a belief that the earth itself is a living being i.e. a creature that must be adored and revered.
Adoration plus reverence = worship.
That is exactly what you and the apostate anti pope Jorge Bergoglio do.

It is pagan through and through and the sort of intellectual dross that only an ignorant "fist for hire" [your word for Bergoglio] could invent.
 

roc_

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You need to back off. The thread stands on its merits.

If you see Zionism here that says more about you than the rest of us
If you read my posts you would see my main reference was to Karloff's anti-Western views in general. In any case, Karloff does not centre himself on "anti-Zionism". He is at least honest enough with himself to say what he has to say without always skulking behind that particular facade as others do. He is "anti-West", "anti-imperialist" and sees "international Jewry" (not necessarily "Zionists") working together behind the scenes to gain control of the TV stations, schools, newspapers, radio stations, governments, movie studios, banks, etc, building an all encompassing "Matrix" of lies - to destroy potential rival groups and rule the world and so on. - Israel is only one component part of that for him. - Why don't you ask him to confirm that. Also he might confirm the angle that in an important sense attracted him to the story, and whether I am correct or not. One thing I will say about Karloff is that he is honest.
 

SamsonS

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Are these Jewish elephants, or are these elephants pre or post Vatican 2 elephants. Or is not about elephants at all , and is that the elephant in the room that I can't see?
 


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