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Another of view of Lavrenty Beria.


SevenStars

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The main authority on Stalin Ludo Martens who wrote the classic biography of the man who was probably the greatest man of the 20 th century and most definitely one of the truly greatest men of all time, "Another view of Stalin", comes out quite harshly on Lavrenty Beria the leader of The People's Commissariate of Internal Affairs, even going so far as to suggest he had a hand in the death of Uncle Koba and was as bad as the part of the revisionist clique that sentenced him to death in 1953.

However this article that I came across recently suggests that Beria wanted to deepen the democratic reforms that Stalin had started and desired to do (it must be remembered that the government of Comrade Stalin was a lot more democratic than that of the early Bolsheviks and the tyranny of Nikita Khrushchev which followed).

Grover Furr: "Stalin and the Struggle for Democratic Reform, Part One"

And this article raises serious questions about the treatment of Lavrenty Beria in "Another view of Stalin".

http://redcomrades.byethost5.com/redcomrades/beria.html
 
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borntorum

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The main authority on Stalin Ludo Martens who wrote the classic biography of the man who was probably the greatest man of the 20 th century and most definitely one of the truly greatest men of all time, ...
:x
 

IvoShandor

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The main authority on Stalin Ludo Martens who wrote the classic biography of the man who was probably the greatest man of the 20 th century and most definitely one of the truly greatest men of all time, "Another view of Stalin", comes out quite harshly on Lavrenty Beria the leader of The People's Commissariate of Internal Affairs, even going so far as to suggest he had a hand in the death of Uncle Koba and was as bad as the part of the revisionist clique that sentenced him to death in 1953.
If he indeed did have a hand in Stalin's death...then fair play to him. It would have been the only good deed he ever did.

However this article that I came across recently suggests that Beria wanted to deepen the democratic reforms that Stalin had started and desired to do (it must be remembered that the government of Comrade Stalin was a lot more democratic than that of the early Bolsheviks and the tyranny of Nikita Khrushchev which followed).
Actually, the notion that Beria was leaning towards an end to repression,a new policy towards the satellites countries and a reformist stance is old news. It does'nt change one whit the fact that Beria was a sadistic, evil, black-hearted mass-murderer and rapist and that he got what he deserved.

The tyranny of Khruschev, eh? Well, compared to any other country it was a tyranny, by Stalin's standards it was wild liberalism. As the Marquis de Custine said about Russia "In this country an avowed tyranny would be a mark of progress"
 

Cael

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As the Marquis de Custine said about Russia "In this country an avowed tyranny would be a mark of progress"
Given that he died in 1857, Im sure he would have agreed that the overthrow of the Tsar was a great mark of progress.
 

Nobber Man

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I don't give a ************************ what Beria thought about democratic reforms. The fact is that he was a twisted, demented pervert who cruised the streets in his Zhil appraising little girls through the parted curtains on the windows, bringing them back to his office, where he raped them.

Stalin should have chopped off his **** and stuffed it up his hole before he had him shot.
 

Cael

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I don't give a ************************ what Beria thought about democratic reforms. The fact is that he was a twisted, demented pervert who cruised the streets in his Zhil appraising little girls through the parted curtains on the windows, bringing them back to his office, where he raped them.

Stalin should have chopped off his **** and stuffed it up his hole before he had him shot.
There were a lot of wild stories about what the likes of Beria were supposed to be up to, I think you have to realise that the Americans had whole departments ordered to make this stuff up - the wilder the better. I dont think much of Beria myself, but he would have had to have super powers to do everything the Yanks had him doing.
 
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Nobber Man

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There were a lot of wild stories about what the likes of Beria were supposed to be up to, I think you have to realise that the Americans had whole departments ordered to make this stuff up - the wilder that better. I dont think much of Beria myself, but he would have had to have super powers to do everything the Yanks had him doing.
All very fine, but in all that comment I notice you do not explicitly refute the statement that he was a dirty little perverted paedophile.

He did it because he was Head of the NKVD and he knew that no one could stop him. Except Josef Vissarinovich Zhugashvili
 

Cael

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All very fine, but in all that comment I notice you do not explicitly refute the statement that he was a dirty little perverted paedophile.
I dont know if its true or not, and nor do you a chara.
 

Nobber Man

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I dont know if its true or not, and nor do you a chara.
It's referenced in all the standard works on the CPSU, comrade. You could start by reading Sebag Montefiore's well-researched work on Stalin where he documents this.

In a 1990 interview Beria's wife Nina said: "Lavrentii was busy working day and night. When did he have time for love with this legion of women?" How dumb she was.
 

former wesleyan

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Next up :- Another view of Pol Pot : A misunderstood genius.
 

shutuplaura

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There is a small grain of truth in what the commies here are saying. Eastern Bloc atrocities were given prominance and often exagerated while western ones were minimised or denied. Someone mentioned Pol Pot. Without denying that he was a twisted little moron, some historians of Cambodia during the relevant period now believe that the number ofd deaths under his regime are exagerated to downplay the numbers killed by US bombing from 1970-1975. Its interesting and if true speaks about something fundamentally deranged in every humans psyche - the capacity for self denial.


That said though, at the end of the day, Beria (like Pol Pot) was a mass murderer.

Seven Stars or Cael's defence of the man is part of the same messed up capacity for self denial as those in the west they (rightly) criticise.
 

vanla sighs

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The main authority on Stalin Ludo Martens who wrote the classic biography of the man who was probably the greatest man of the 20 th century and most definitely one of the truly greatest men of all time, "Another view of Stalin", comes out quite harshly on Lavrenty Beria the leader of The People's Commissariate of Internal Affairs, even going so far as to suggest he had a hand in the death of Uncle Koba and was as bad as the part of the revisionist clique that sentenced him to death in 1953.

However this article that I came across recently suggests that Beria wanted to deepen the democratic reforms that Stalin had started and desired to do (it must be remembered that the government of Comrade Stalin was a lot more democratic than that of the early Bolsheviks and the tyranny of Nikita Khrushchev which followed).

Grover Furr: "Stalin and the Struggle for Democratic Reform, Part One"

And this article raises serious questions about the treatment of Lavrenty Beria in "Another view of Stalin".

On Lavrenty Beria
Eh, did you just say Stalin was one of the greatest men of all time and probably the greatest of the 20th century? Don't know what to say to that, well, I do but it wouldn't be polite.
 

Cael

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It's referenced in all the standard works on the CPSU, comrade. You could start by reading Sebag Montefiore's well-researched work on Stalin where he documents this.
I read Montefiore's Young Stalin, and thought it well researched at the time, but subsequently I discovered that Montefiore doesnt seem to know the difference between legend and actual fact - or perhaps doesnt want to know, as the facts would be far less swashbuckling and sell far less books.
 

Cael

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Cael

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That said though, at the end of the day, Beria (like Pol Pot) was a mass murderer.

Seven Stars or Cael's defence of the man is part of the same messed up capacity for self denial as those in the west they (rightly) criticise.
If you read what I wrote, or what is written in the OP, you will see that neither one of us is attempting to defend Beria. The OP questions certain popular conceptions and offers counter evidence. As for myself, I merely stated that we have no evidence that Beria was a paedophile, or that he raped children. I did not say that the man had any merits at all. Indeed, Stalin did surround himself with unquestioning lapdogs like Khrushchev.
 

shutuplaura

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If you read what I wrote, or what is written in the OP, you will see that neither one of us is attempting to defend Beria. The OP questions certain popular conceptions and offers counter evidence. As for myself, I merely stated that we have no evidence that Beria was a paedophile, or that he raped children. I did not say that the man had any merits at all. Indeed, Stalin did surround himself with unquestioning lapdogs like Khrushchev.
Actually, you didn't defend Beria so I'll retract that. Point still stands in relation to the praise of Stalin by the OP.
 

Cael

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Actually, you didn't defend Beria so I'll retract that. Point still stands in relation to the praise of Stalin by the OP.
Fair enough, a chara. I would also agree with the OP that Comrade Stalin was a great man, and that the nationalisation of the land by Stalin, along with the legal ending of slavery, were the two greatest moments in human progress. Of the two, the nationalisation of the land was the greatest, as the ending of legal slavery was mostly formal (since as long as there is private land ownership, de facto wage-slavery remains).
 

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