Another SF parliamentarian suspended (or as the rest of us call it, the SF internal discipline thread)

automaticforthepeople

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Another SF parliamentarian suspended (or as the rest of us call it, the SF internal discipline thread)

We're 3 months into the new year and SF are internally exiling their 3rd parliamentarian. Followint Barry McElduff shooting himself in the foot came Maire Devine's less than divine tweet which saw her hidden away for 3 months from the public view.

Latest to become a non person until people forget what she did is Offaly TD Carol Nolan. Carol holds a marginal seat which is to disappear at the next General Election. She is on the right of the party when it comes to social issues and supports the eight amendment.
Today she voted against a referendum to repeal the 8th in opposition to party policy so she has been internally exiled for 3 months. Are SF shooting themselves in the foot again? Nolan now has a 3 month referendum campaign to do as she so wishes with all the publicity that will come with that. Her running mate Brian Stanley is one of SF's many lesser lights who does the bidding of Belfast.

Will Nolan now outflank Stanley and take the one SF seat in Laois Offaly at the next election? Who is next for the 3 month internal holiday in Carrickfergus saltmines?

Mary Lou is certainly going to be cranky. This wouldn't have happened when Gerry was in his prime.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/sinn-fin-td-suspended-after-defying-party-line-on-abortion-36730217.html
 


APettigrew92

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Today she voted against a referendum to repeal the 8th in opposition to party policy so she has been internally exiled for 3 months.
You realise that all Irish political parties implement such a whip?

Of which the usual result is expulsion from the party?

Do you think SF are alone in that regard? Can you show me a political party in any given country where there are no internal disputes over policy?
 

bokuden

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We're 3 months into the new year and SF are internally exiling their 3rd parliamentarian. Followint Barry McElduff shooting himself in the foot came Maire Devine's less than divine tweet which saw her hidden away for 3 months from the public view.

Latest to become a non person until people forget what she did is Offaly TD Carol Nolan. Carol holds a marginal seat which is to disappear at the next General Election. She is on the right of the party when it comes to social issues and supports the eight amendment.
Today she voted against a referendum to repeal the 8th in opposition to party policy so she has been internally exiled for 3 months. Are SF shooting themselves in the foot again? Nolan now has a 3 month referendum campaign to do as she so wishes with all the publicity that will come with that. Her running mate Brian Stanley is one of SF's many lesser lights who does the bidding of Belfast.

Will Nolan now outflank Stanley and take the one SF seat in Laois Offaly at the next election? Who is next for the 3 month internal holiday in Carrickfergus saltmines?

Mary Lou is certainly going to be cranky. This wouldn't have happened when Gerry was in his prime.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/sinn-fin-td-suspended-after-defying-party-line-on-abortion-36730217.html
It's a pity other parties didn't have the guts to vote for a position on the referendem and then stick toit. FG and FF are cowards and opportunists (notwithstanding certain individuals within each party).
 

Sync

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You realise that all Irish political parties implement such a whip?
Literally every other major party have stated they won't implement such a whip for this vote.
 

Cruimh

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We're 3 months into the new year and SF are internally exiling their 3rd parliamentarian. Followint Barry McElduff shooting himself in the foot came Maire Devine's less than divine tweet which saw her hidden away for 3 months from the public view.

Latest to become a non person until people forget what she did is Offaly TD Carol Nolan. Carol holds a marginal seat which is to disappear at the next General Election. She is on the right of the party when it comes to social issues and supports the eight amendment.
Today she voted against a referendum to repeal the 8th in opposition to party policy so she has been internally exiled for 3 months. Are SF shooting themselves in the foot again? Nolan now has a 3 month referendum campaign to do as she so wishes with all the publicity that will come with that. Her running mate Brian Stanley is one of SF's many lesser lights who does the bidding of Belfast.

Will Nolan now outflank Stanley and take the one SF seat in Laois Offaly at the next election? Who is next for the 3 month internal holiday in Carrickfergus saltmines?

Mary Lou is certainly going to be cranky. This wouldn't have happened when Gerry was in his prime.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/sinn-fin-td-suspended-after-defying-party-line-on-abortion-36730217.html
Loath though I am to defend SF or Mary Lou there is nothing strange here - a TD who has voted against the party whip has been suspended. Whether or not SF should have allowed a free vote is a different issue entirely.

I Presume the This wouldn't have happened when Gerry was in his prime is tongue in cheek?

Abortion: SF suspends Toibín for anti-vote | Newstalk

Peadar Toibín got sent to the naughty step for 6 months in 2013....
 

Catalpast

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We're 3 months into the new year and SF are internally exiling their 3rd parliamentarian. Followint Barry McElduff shooting himself in the foot came Maire Devine's less than divine tweet which saw her hidden away for 3 months from the public view.

Latest to become a non person until people forget what she did is Offaly TD Carol Nolan. Carol holds a marginal seat which is to disappear at the next General Election. She is on the right of the party when it comes to social issues and supports the eight amendment.
Today she voted against a referendum to repeal the 8th in opposition to party policy so she has been internally exiled for 3 months. Are SF shooting themselves in the foot again? Nolan now has a 3 month referendum campaign to do as she so wishes with all the publicity that will come with that. Her running mate Brian Stanley is one of SF's many lesser lights who does the bidding of Belfast.

Will Nolan now outflank Stanley and take the one SF seat in Laois Offaly at the next election? Who is next for the 3 month internal holiday in Carrickfergus saltmines?

Mary Lou is certainly going to be cranky. This wouldn't have happened when Gerry was in his prime.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/sinn-fin-td-suspended-after-defying-party-line-on-abortion-36730217.html
If your in SF then you follow the Script or your OUT

- they are not known as 'The Hive' for nothing!:p
 

Catalpast

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You realise that all Irish political parties implement such a whip?

Of which the usual result is expulsion from the party?

Do you think SF are alone in that regard? Can you show me a political party in any given country where there are no internal disputes over policy?
The two major parties allowed a Free vote

- could SF have not done the same?:?
 

APettigrew92

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Literally every other major party have stated they won't implement such a whip for this vote.
The two major parties allowed a Free vote

- could SF have not done the same?:?
Cheers, lads. Taking a morsel of a response out of context. I'll allow Cruimh to clarify for me.

Loath though I am to defend SF or Mary Lou there is nothing strange here - a TD who has voted against the party whip has been suspended. Whether or not SF should have allowed a free vote is a different issue entirely.
Personally, I think - as Kenny did for the Gay marriage thing - that FG and FF are doing their best Pontius Pilate impression and refusing to indict themselves as they both depend on the rural, conservative vote. Especially FG.
 

former wesleyan

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Cheers, lads. Taking a morsel of a response out of context. I'll allow Cruimh to clarify for me.



Personally, I think - as Kenny did for the Gay marriage thing - that FG and FF are doing their best Pontius Pilate impression and refusing to indict themselves as they both depend on the rural, conservative vote.
Especially FG
.
So how come it was FF who had 21 TD's out of 44 voting against the Bill ?
 

Catalpast

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Cheers, lads. Taking a morsel of a response out of context. I'll allow Cruimh to clarify for me.



Personally, I think - as Kenny did for the Gay marriage thing - that FG and FF are doing their best Pontius Pilate impression and refusing to indict themselves as they both depend on the rural, conservative vote. Especially FG.
They are not stupid

- they know this will go down like a lead balloon outside the major urban areas

SF were very unwise not to allow some flexibility on this issue
 

Ceartgoleor

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The two major parties allowed a Free vote

- could SF have not done the same?:?
It's a huge own goal for SF and Mary Lou in particular. The Queen of totalitarianism.

To deny freedom of conscience on an issue like abortion where people hold genuine beliefs that will not allow them condone the killing of unborn children. It is a very reasonable position to hold.

Principles and values mean little to modern day SF unfortunately. A far cry from Frances Hughes or Ray McCressh.
They are becoming more like FF & FG every day. Even the Minister for promoting abortion is praising Martin Ferris such is their mutual self-respect.

Impressively bad start for Mary Lou. If you hold any principles you better be ready to shed them or face being sent to Siberia.

I can't see Peadar Toibín lasting in such a totalitarian party. He is one of the few intellectuals they have.
The longer he stays with them the more credibility he loses and the more damage he is doing to himself.
 

the secretary

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It's a pity other parties didn't have the guts to vote for a position on the referendem and then stick toit. FG and FF are cowards and opportunists (notwithstanding certain individuals within each party).
So SF are denying their TDs choice on the pro choice issue! Hypocrites.
 
Last edited:

Sync

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It's an effort to paint themselves as a more socially liberal party than the others. Market differentiation and all that. I don't think it's a particularly good tactic, more from the internal strife perspective than the voting angle.
 

APettigrew92

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So how come it was FF who had 21 TD's out of 44 voting against the Bill ?
...FF also depend heavily on a conservative, rural vote?

They both do?

In many ways the two are basically inseparable? :?

 

Degeneration X

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You realise that all Irish political parties implement such a whip?

Of which the usual result is expulsion from the party?

Do you think SF are alone in that regard? Can you show me a political party in any given country where there are no internal disputes over policy?
True, let's not forget what happened to Lucinda & Co over voting with FG policy of all things. Enda swore they would never run again for FG in the next GE and was a good as his authoritarian and duplicitous word.

Also Denis Naughten, also for voting with party policy and there was no time limit of three months in that situation.

FG are far more punishing of dissent than any other Irish political party, IMO.
 

APettigrew92

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They are not stupid

- they know this will go down like a lead balloon outside the major urban areas

SF were very unwise not to allow some flexibility on this issue
I never said it was stupid. I said that's what they were doing. Politically, it is very clever.

SF are indeed making a hash of this.

You and Sync need not confuse my rebuttal with disagreement. You're both correct - it is a bizarre position to take.

I know SF voters who are just as split about this decision as any other. To assume that all their voters are in lock-step over this is naivety in the extreme.
 

ireallyshouldknowbetter

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True, let's not forget what happened to Lucinda & Co over voting with FG policy of all things. Enda swore they would never run again for FG in the next GE and was a good as his authoritarian and duplicitous word.
1. If he was as good as his word, he cannot also have been duplicitous.

2. Lucinda set up her own party and ran as a candidate for that party, so that might also have had something to do with it.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Literally every other major party have stated they won't implement such a whip for this vote.
Given that today's vote was merely a vote to allow us plebs to have our say, it's a disgrace that over 30 TDs voted against it.

SF is to be commended for whipping its TDs on this matter. Voting for abortion legislation is an entirely different matter
 

Round tower

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Loath though I am to defend SF or Mary Lou there is nothing strange here - a TD who has voted against the party whip has been suspended. Whether or not SF should have allowed a free vote is a different issue entirely.

I Presume the This wouldn't have happened when Gerry was in his prime is tongue in cheek?

Abortion: SF suspends Toibín for anti-vote | Newstalk

Peadar Toibín got sent to the naughty step for 6 months in 2013....
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/sinn-fin-td-suspended-after-defying-party-line-on-abortion-36730217.html

Toibin was not present in the Dail due to family matter he had to attend and told the party, he took to twtitter to say he is against the 8th admendment being deleted but agrees with the ref.

"Personally as people know, I strongly oppose the Eighth Amendment being deleted from the Irish Constitution. However, at this stage I believe that there should be a referendum. What's needed now is honest and respectful debate."
 


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