Anyone else gone past anger,despair and just doesn't care anymore?

Thomas Ofiannachta

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Aug 8, 2010
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The alternative may not be great, but personally I would get satisfaction in seeing Fianna
Fail removed from power, Just looking at Willie O Dea back on TV again, Those guys just do not respect the people If I caught out out using an untrue smear to damage an opponent, Iwould be ashamed to be seen in public again. Instead we have journalists clapping him on the and saying, he will head the poll next time, not one Journalist will ask him, "How do you feel now about what you did to Mr Quinliven. This man believes he will be a minister again. So much for standards in high places
And lets not forget, he was also willing to hang a journalist out to dry, and a garda!

And he was only trying to evade a question about how many servants he had working for him.

Nope I am still angry and havent drifted off into not caring.
 


FakeViking

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Yes, absolutely, if you are registered outside a major city. The reason is demographics. Basically it's anti-rural discrimination. I heard this on Liveline.


:eek: Are you crazy?? Votes spoiled with genitalia are added to the tally for the person with the LEAST amount of votes, when they are eliminated these votes AUTOMATICALLY go to Fianna Fail, or if there is no FF candidate it goes to the party with the most votes (not including spoiled votes for this party). If this party candidate is eliminated the spoiled votes are carried forward to the next election in five years and they automatically start with them, thus "handicapping" other candidates!!

Please could everyone remember this before spoiling votes.

HTH
That only applied with the eVoting machines.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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I know exactly how you feel .Having ranted and raved about the road Brian Lenihan was going down for the past 2 years ,it now seems a totally pointless exercise .There seems a certain inevitability about our loss of sovereignty now. So many people have just given up the fight -they realise that we are no longer in control of our own destiny-It might help if Lenihan and Cowen admitted this but they still would have us believe that they are in control .FF have destroyed us and I just can`t even look at any of their snivelling ,corrupt faces anymore.They are the spawn of the devil in my opinion but how in God`s name are we going to get rid of them?
It's good to know it's not just me - this is the first thread in a while that captures the real mood.

I still manage the odd impassioned rant, but quite seriously, after so many disappointments at times where an election would have been inevitable in any real country - add you own favourite here, but Brian Lenihan admitted not "noticing" the €7.4bn "deposit" in Anglo is mine - that I've just about given up hope of a general election before 2012.

What's missing is any sense of justice or fairbness - the Gov are still enjoying world-beating salaries while deciding how Joe and Joan Taxpayer-Voter must pay for their incompetence. amd add to that the fact that the architect of all this are still walking free, and indeed living lives far better than they deserve, from Sean Fitz to Bertie Ahern, that you get a real sense that doing the right thing just doesn't pay.

I would imagine this is going to have a serious negative impact on the psyche of the nation as kids grow up seeing their parents soak up the real horrors of the next budget and sit impotently watching the news as Brian Cowen blunders from phuck-up to phuck-up without a care in the world for his future. I imagine the next generation is going to be seriously scarred and carry a complete disregard for authority or the law.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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That's right. Do you really think Enda Kenny or Eamon Gilmore have a clue as to what to do to sort out the mess?

Status Quo sums up politics in Ireland since the beginnings of the state. Sometimes its FG with or without Labour, sometimes its Fianna Fail, with or without Labour.

It never changes, no point in getting angry anymore, no matter who is in government over the next few years, things will barely change.
I think any change in this case will be a good change - FF are too implicit and tied up in the problem to find the solution, and you'd have to wonder if they're even trying anymore. At least FG and/or Lab could ditch the baggage. The first step to recovery for an alcoholic is to admit they have a problem, and right now FF are still in denial, so have no hope, and every "solution" they dream up - like NAMA - is based on proving their original policies were right, akin to Napoleon re-planning the battle of Waterloo in exile long after he was defeated. A new government - ABFFGP - could approach the problem with a fresh perspective and provide a fresh sense of optimism and innovation. I believe a change would be as good as a rest.
 

Asparagus

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I think any change in this case will be a good change - FF are too implicit and tied up in the problem to find the solution, and you'd have to wonder if they're even trying anymore. At least FG and/or Lab could ditch the baggage. The first step to recovery for an alcoholic is to admit they have a problem, and right now FF are still in denial, so have no hope, and every "solution" they dream up - like NAMA - is based on proving their original policies were right, akin to Napoleon re-planning the battle of Waterloo in exile long after he was defeated. A new government - ABFFGP - could approach the problem with a fresh perspective and provide a fresh sense of optimism and innovation. I believe a change would be as good as a rest.

But the problem is that eamon and enda both agree to the budget madness.

Its insane.

The problem is that we must admit an over reliance on cheap credit - not attempt to make credit cheaper for ourselves.

A junkie hits rock bottom - they effectively socially default and come out the other end rehabilitated...
Our govt and opposition are both set on cutting down the drugs so we can buy more of them cheaper in a few years...

A change will inevitably be better but not as much as you'd hope.
 

Chuck de Mawl

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IThA2ulOV0]YouTube - Comedian Rick Overton on protesting[/ame]

It's easy to see why you would get depressed shouting at the TV, muttering at headlines, or moaning over your pint / listening to Joe Duffy.

You get a little bit of relief from venting, and then it goes away, and long term, it sinks into your psyche you are putting in (mostly emotional) effort for zero actual result. That of course will tend to drag you down.

A protest march (if it is only a march to listen to speeches, with no plan to engage in boycotts, sit ins or anything remotely effective) will also give people a temporary 'high'. Unlike shouting at the Telly, you get the comfort of being with many similar minded people and some solidarity and the bit of fresh air and exercise isn't bad for you either. But if at the end, all you've done is worn out your shoes, and got a hoarse throat and listened to some overpaid Trade Union head and a SWP talking head tell you 'things are bad, and they should not be bad', you're not going to be all that motivated for long.

And if you're in France, you can also get a short term high by feckin' a brick through a window, for all the long term good that will do.

So the key is, spend less time moaning about it, (P.ie has good thread swith breaking news, but too many long threads full of moans) and more time trying to organise people into doing something constructive. Whether that means going out to counter campaign, leaflets, against the politicians

One thing I can never abide is this the shallow version of the argument whether to vote for the opposition or not vote at all/spoil your vote.

What matters much more than your vote is what you do between elections if you want accountability.
If a politician knows you have swallowed the b.s. of 'I got voted in, I have a mandate, and if people don't like it they can vote differently in 5 years', then that politician can pull plenty of strokes for years, troubled by little more than the odd letter in the Irish Times, and

However, if we actually lived up to what we claim, we would treat these feckers for what they are - paid employees.
My local TDs do not like seeing me open my mouth to ask them a question, precisely because I speak to them like they are my employees.
If more people did that, then they would change their behaviour accordingly.

Once people start thinking and acting like that, then they will react better. What do you do when your employee starts acting the l@nger?
You tell em to cop on. Frankly and directly. If they keep doing it, then every time they go to their offices and clinics, there should be a bunch of ordinary folk telling them to pack their bags and go. (not the same crowd every time, if this was a real active democracy, there would be no shortage, given how many people are pi$$ed off). And if they still won't go, strikes, sit-ins boycotts of associated businesses etc.

(Thankfully, TDs can't really sue the electorate for constructive dismissal. )

But the biggest advantage the TDs have, is the mental obstacle in our own heads, that somehow, this is not the way we should behave, and in fact, we are encouraged to denigrate those people who do protest. (plenty of guilty parties here on p.ie)

"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." - Steven Biko
 

Maximus Cynicus

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Apr 7, 2010
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1,106
What's missing is any sense of justice or fairness - the Gov are still enjoying world-beating salaries while deciding how Joe and Joan Taxpayer-Voter must pay for their incompetence. amd add to that the fact that the architect of all this are still walking free, and indeed living lives far better than they deserve, from Sean Fitz to Bertie Ahern, that you get a real sense that doing the right thing just doesn't pay.

I would imagine this is going to have a serious negative impact on the psyche of the nation as kids grow up seeing their parents soak up the real horrors of the next budget and sit impotently watching the news as Brian Cowen blunders from phuck-up to phuck-up without a care in the world for his future. I imagine the next generation is going to be seriously scarred and carry a complete disregard for authority or the law.
Alas, it gets better even than that. Given the season that's in it, let's try something spooky, shall we?

In early 1980's the protagonists in the Fianna Fail party were Haughey, Flynn, Lenihan, Coughlan, Calleary, Ahern, Collins et al

In 2010, the FF ranks include Haughey, Flynn, Lenihan, Coughlan, Calleary, Ahern, Collins, etc

Now, wearing their Nostradamus hat, would anyone attempt to name the FF players in 2040, when our middle-aged kids are still wading through inherited debt?
 

bokuden

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Messages
11,250
I'm not despairing, I'm furious! Instead of shouting at an inanimate object get out and do something constructive. The fact that there has been a major march on the Dail is a national embarrassment!
 

tempest

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346
A change will inevitably be better but not as much as you'd hope.
Forget internal party politics and personalities, a change of government would at least give the markets and international community the message we have regained control of the asylum and are moving in a new direction with fresh minds, not to mention returning some feeling of ownership to the people.

They can either call an election now while still somewhat in control and elect a new government with a clear mandate, or stumble on a few months more defying gravity, while the turmoil grows every day as interest rates soar. That can only end with a messy collapse making us look like an even bigger basket case.
 

bokuden

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They can either call an election now while still somewhat in control and elect a new government with a clear mandate, or stumble on a few months more defying gravity, while the turmoil grows every day as interest rates soar. That can only end with a messy collapse making us look like an even bigger basket case.
+1
 

Sensible Head

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896
@chuck

"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." - Steven Biko

Thats some quote right there cheers.

I'm still in the easily rilled stage punctuated with bouts of despair.

I used to be politically active in London but as I got older it kinda fell away as a part of my life. I've definitely got that sense of frustration/powerlesness of the armchair warrior ;) . Thought its actually impossible for me to engage with parties here, I don't really like any of them.

I'd go for a party that promised a new republic and a clear out of this one, including serious jail time where warrented, bring in the feds from the US if required. :p
 

The OD

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There was one honest candidate in the last GE... he got 1,198 FPV's (including his own).. damn all good it did him mind.
My apologies ROC, you know I hold you in the highest of regard! If you ran in my constituency you'd get my No.1 without a shadow of a doubt.

My bad.....:?
 

Polytics.Irie

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Oct 2, 2009
Messages
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@chuck

"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." - Steven Biko
Exacto Mundo.

The Irish are pig ignorant no nothings, who fancy themselves as wise know alls. They'd rather die than admit to ignorance.

Until that changes, nothing will.

From one who has moved beyond anger, beyond frustration, and beyond the shores.
 

turdsl

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I have neighbours just after leaving our country, 3 with masters degrees, The harm that Fianna Fail have done to us will take at least a generation to recover from, How sad for young and old,
 

foreigner

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Oct 6, 2010
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don't give up

The people that live in this state are in a corner, you can give up and let the aggressors beat you to death or you can give as good as you get. As Roddy Doyle said in the Commitments, they had nothing and were willing to risk it all. If you think you are a man of integrity then stop shouting at it and start shouting at public meetings, at the street corner. Otherwise you've accepted your fate, your head is shaven and you're heading for the chamber.[/QUOTE]

Well don't know where to start but here it goes. I qualified and had my training till late 90s in Dublin, yes Ireland was flourishing when I left compared to I first arrived in late 80s, it was good see Ireland became so prosperous. Last late August I came back to Dublin to watch Dublin vs Cork in Crook Park, I felt so bad because Dublin lost despite my over 20 hours journey back to support them. Yes I noticed Ireland changed after I left. financial problems hurt everyone, my friends, previous colleagues and now it seems political problems are more troublesome than financial difficulty. Majority Irish people are very good people, decent and honest. Please don't give up because you are fighting Irish. There is always hope like I always hope Dublin would win All Ireland soon.
 

loaded32

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Feb 23, 2009
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Well it looks like some of the info that all of us have known but the Govt has not admitted is starting to be verified today even!
Firstly our Bonds have gone through the 7% barrier today, making our borrowings even more exspensive and proving that the markets doent believe or trust a word that this god forsaken government says!
Secondly, I think it was Brian Hayes, who stood up in the Dail this lunchtime and said that it has just been a "Doss House" on both sides for the past 10 years!!!
 

Hewson

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I hope in twenty years time we can look back on this period of our history and see that this is when everything changed. That we witnessed the end of the era of petty-minded parochial politics and the birth of a sense of responsibility for our affairs as a nation. Much of what has been going on in Irish politics for decades has been leading to this. It was inevitable. Inevitable because too many of us were willing to overlook what we saw as shortcomings in those who had power, rather than seeing it for what it was: corruption. And corruption never happens in isolation. It's systemic and malignant, seeping through the stratas of society like a poisonous cancer and changing what might otherwise be healthy into something inherently rotten and diseased.

This country has been sick at the top for a long time. Politics has been debased, large swathes of business have been compromised and our banking system hijacked by incompetent people whose god is greed. We've tolerated it. Let's be honest with ourselves about that one fact: we've tolerated it.

We've known for decades that the system of so-called democracy in operation within the walls of Leinster House had become little more than a carcass for starving rodents. I could, on one hand, count the number of politicians I could honestly say were in there for the betterment of society. I've watched a succession of cheats, liars, incompetents and bumpkin buffoons, puffed up with their own pathetic, imaginary sense of importance, parade across the political landscape like peacocks. For these people, public service played second fiddle to self service, and every little luxury, every cent that could be drained from the public purse as a means of stroking their egos and feathering their nests was taken, deserved or not.

Mary Harney charging up the Mars Bar to the people of Ireland. John O'Donoghue doling out $500 tips to the Limo driver in the States. Other people's money. Easy come, easy go.

All the junk that politicians throw in our faces. They do it because they can. Because they don't care. Because we let them. Just like they've landed us with a bill for 50,000,000,000 Euro. A direct result of greed, incompetence, neglect, corruption and the knowledge that when the system fails, the taxpayer will always pick up the slack.

The Irish are a fair-minded and generous nation. When disaster strikes some part of the world, be it famine, tsunami, earthquake or whatever nature throws up, the Irish always dig deeper into their pockets, give more and care more. It's a virtue we should be proud of. I haven't given up on this country yet, and I'm still at the anger stage. I want to help fix what's gone wrong, I want to stay here and re-build.

But I also want accountability and monumental change in how this country is run. No more big payoffs for political and state failures. No more unearned expenses for people who should, if they really are public servants, be first in line to take the pain. The cuts start with the people who brought this fiscal calamity on our heads. Salary cuts, expense cuts and no more state cars, bar two.

It's the very least we demand. It's the very least they can do.

The old order is dead.
 

fluffykontbiscuits

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Jul 7, 2010
Messages
7,063
The lesson to be learned here is that you must teach your children the benefits of the black economy early and instill in them the lesson that honesty, hard work and a healthy civic responsibility is for saps. Sit back on welfare if you want - look at the contribution the Roma and Travelers and Pamela Itzascam and her Nigerian ilk have made to this economy and the benefits they reap, kill a man if you want and get a few years for it with our comical judicial system, don't pay your taxes etc. etc.

Accountability doesn't exist in this moral backwater.

Most importantly of all though, teach your kids a foreign language.
Dont turn this into a black bashing thread, keep the thread on topic...

On the point highlighted, I would urge any parent to teach their kid a foreign language :)
 

loaded32

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Messages
280
I hope in twenty years time we can look back on this period of our history and see that this is when everything changed. That we witnessed the end of the era of petty-minded parochial politics and the birth of a sense of responsibility for our affairs as a nation. Much of what has been going on in Irish politics for decades has been leading to this. It was inevitable. Inevitable because too many of us were willing to overlook what we saw as shortcomings in those who had power, rather than seeing it for what it was: corruption. And corruption never happens in isolation. It's systemic and malignant, seeping through the stratas of society like a poisonous cancer and changing what might otherwise be healthy into something inherently rotten and diseased.

This country has been sick at the top for a long time. Politics has been debased, large swathes of business have been compromised and our banking system hijacked by incompetent people whose god is greed. We've tolerated it. Let's be honest with ourselves about that one fact: we've tolerated it.

We've known for decades that the system of so-called democracy in operation within the walls of Leinster House had become little more than a carcass for starving rodents. I could, on one hand, count the number of politicians I could honestly say were in there for the betterment of society. I've watched a succession of cheats, liars, incompetents and bumpkin buffoons, puffed up with their own pathetic, imaginary sense of importance, parade across the political landscape like peacocks. For these people, public service played second fiddle to self service, and every little luxury, every cent that could be drained from the public purse as a means of stroking their egos and feathering their nests was taken, deserved or not.

Mary Harney charging up the Mars Bar to the people of Ireland. John O'Donoghue doling out $500 tips to the Limo driver in the States. Other people's money. Easy come, easy go.

All the junk that politicians throw in our faces. They do it because they can. Because they don't care. Because we let them. Just like they've landed us with a bill for 50,000,000,000 Euro. A direct result of greed, incompetence, neglect, corruption and the knowledge that when the system fails, the taxpayer will always pick up the slack.

The Irish are a fair-minded and generous nation. When disaster strikes some part of the world, be it famine, tsunami, earthquake or whatever nature throws up, the Irish always dig deeper into their pockets, give more and care more. It's a virtue we should be proud of. I haven't given up on this country yet, and I'm still at the anger stage. I want to help fix what's gone wrong, I want to stay here and re-build.

But I also want accountability and monumental change in how this country is run. No more big payoffs for political and state failures. No more unearned expenses for people who should, if they really are public servants, be first in line to take the pain. The cuts start with the people who brought this fiscal calamity on our heads. Salary cuts, expense cuts and no more state cars, bar two.

It's the very least we demand. It's the very least they can do.

The old order is dead.
Excellent post buddy and I agree 99%. The only 1% remaining is with your last sentence and that is where my hope is dying as the "old order " is still alive and so is the status quo!
 

fluffykontbiscuits

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It's entirely on topic dckhead so don't tell me what I can and can't do on a thread dedicated to whinging. Open-door immigration has contributed massively to the problem we're in now whether you wish to recognise that or not.
Hate to tell you its pure ************************************************ you are writing buddy. Stop derailing the thread...
 


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