Anyone seen this site?

youngfella

Member
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
25
Hi guys henry forwarded this on earlier today. It makes for some interesting reading.

Again we find ourselves in this coalition problem.

again we make it public

Again we lose?

www.labourfirst.ie
 


Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
4,249
Website
www.politics.ie
Twitter
davidcochrane
This may be all well, but the domain is under the ownership of the main party, which must suggest *some* kind of main party endorsement of this campaign.

labourfirst.ie
domain: labourfirst.ie
descr: The Labour Party
descr: Unincorporated Association
descr: Unincorporated Association Name
admin-c: ABI211-IEDR
tech-c: AAB069-IEDR
nserver: NS1.HOSTIRELAND.COM
nserver: NS2.HOSTIRELAND.COM
source: IEDR

person: Henry Haughton
nic-hdl: ABI211-IEDR
source: IEDR

person: Jean McLaughlin
nic-hdl: AAB069-IEDR
source: IEDR
 

meriwether

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,539
I'm bemused that he includes the last election campaign as a succesful one. It was a disaster for labour, they picked up no extra seats when FG couldnt give them away quickly enough. This was as a result of not ruling out possible coalition with FF after the election.
The 1992 campaign was hugely successful- and fought on the back of a fiercely anti-FF message. I think Henry doesnt really know what he's at.

Labour would be mad to refuse to enter into a pre-election pact with FG. It would hurt both parties, and absolutely guarantee reelection of the current partners.
 

borderlinegenius

Active member
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
149
meriwether said:
Labour would be mad to refuse to enter into a pre-election pact with FG. It would hurt both parties, and absolutely guarantee reelection of the current partners.
Did you see the report in the Phoenix about this? It would seem that a pact will benefit Fine Gael, and will do nothing but damage Labour.

Besides, unless there is a minor miracle (and Enda Kenny is no messiah) the only permutation that will be viable will be FF/Labour. The only question is whether they do this with or without the Rabitte.
 

youngfella

Member
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
25
Thats brilliant!!!!! how do you computer tech heads do that? im impressed.

i sincerely doubt that the labour party would endorse this site, as the NEC decided otherwise.

Henry knows what he is at, trust me.

Henry |Haughton, is vice chair of labour for those who dont him. A man who doesnt mind standing up for what he believes in, unlike some politicians of ALL political parties.
 

meriwether

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,539
borderlinegenius said:
meriwether said:
Labour would be mad to refuse to enter into a pre-election pact with FG. It would hurt both parties, and absolutely guarantee reelection of the current partners.
Did you see the report in the Phoenix about this? It would seem that a pact will benefit Fine Gael, and will do nothing but damage Labour.

Besides, unless there is a minor miracle (and Enda Kenny is no messiah) the only permutation that will be viable will be FF/Labour. The only question is whether they do this with or without the Rabitte.
Labour will lose out on second preferences from my people if they refuse to enter into a pact with us-and they could be useful to guard off challenges from SF in certain constituencies- namely Waterford where Brian O'Shea will need FG number 2's to hold off David Cullinane, or in Galway East where Colm Keavney will be slugging it out with Paddy McHugh to be in contention for the final seat.
Secondly, FG offer labour the best hope of being in Govt. They cant do it on their own, and are FF's third choice after PD's and independent FF's.
If they refuse to enter the Mullingar pact, they will suffer more than FG. We are definitely going to gain seats- how many I dont know. Labour will have the same number as last time- history repeating itself like 2002, and may even drop a few seats, and be in opposition to compound that.
 

borderlinegenius

Active member
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
149
Merriweather, according to their detailed internal report, the Labour party will lose out in every single constituency where they are challenging for a seat, or defending a precarious seat.

Plus, you're not going into government. Not unless FG pick up dozens of seats. We know Labour aren't going anywhere, and the Greens may be wiped out, so it's all down to the Blueshirts.

Not a hope.
 

DOD

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
642
meriwether said:
I'm bemused that he includes the last election campaign as a succesful one. It was a disaster for labour, they picked up no extra seats when FG couldnt give them away quickly enough. This was as a result of not ruling out possible coalition with FF after the election.
The 1992 campaign was hugely successful- and fought on the back of a fiercely anti-FF message. I think Henry doesnt really know what he's at.

.
The general election may not have been good, but they did very well in the locals. We didn't damage them in the way i thought. We both grew. I say fair play to Henry and Mick O' Reilly. It's good to know there are still some true labour people out there.
 

youngfella

Member
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
25
Quite simply, how can Labour ask people to support their policy documents, if they are going to be watered down by Fine Gael in any co-alition.

I understand the need for compromise, but not the need to sell out. I would hope that whoever the leader is, be it after conference, or after general election, that Eamonn Gilmore(or whoever gets leader job) would have the courage of his/her convictions and not enter any government unless they are the bigger party.

i know its a one member one vote special delegate conf. that decides this but i can only presume that at least 35% of those delegates will be mandated to vote one way or t'other

Altough to the best of my recall Deputy Rabbitte has never said he ruled out FF, he has said some nasty things about them, and the need to replace, but can anyone find me the exact line where he ruled them in or out?(again subject to correction)

So i think fair play to the people who are putting their ideology(yeah, remember that word, my god somebody blow the dust off it, hasnt been used in irish politics in a long time) first and the need for ministerial trappings second, isnt that what politics is about?
 

youngfella

Member
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
25
borderlinegenius said:
Merriweather, according to their detailed internal report, the Labour party will lose out in every single constituency where they are challenging for a seat, or defending a precarious seat.
.
Going to lose all seats? the report didnt show that at all, it gave a detailed analysis of key marginal ones.
 

DOD

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
642
youngfella said:
Quite simply, how can Labour ask people to support their policy documents, if they are going to be watered down by Fine Gael in any co-alition.
What I can't understand about young people like you in the Labour party is, Labour have been going into coalition with FG since 1948. If ye don't like that, why would ye join a party that has a history of such coalitions? It is not as if it is a new phenomenon. If I was a Socialist party person I would be annoyed, because if you people joined them (or preferably us) like ye should do, they would be a much bigger party today.
 

geraghd

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
474
The general election may not have been good, but they did very well in the locals.
The general election where there was no pact and the local election where there was an informal one?
 

krayZpaving

Active member
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
249
Website
www.keith.gs
borderlinegenius said:
Merriweather, according to their detailed internal report, the Labour party will lose out in every single constituency where they are challenging for a seat, or defending a precarious seat.
Not according to the "detailed internal report" I've seen...
 

ryano

Active member
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
173
Not according to the "detailed internal report" I've seen...
But sure anyone in the Labour party could throw together a few pages with lots of footnotes and call it a "detailed internal report".
 

blue33

Active member
Joined
Dec 4, 2003
Messages
110
youngfella said:
I understand the need for compromise, but not the need to sell out. I would hope that whoever the leader is, be it after conference, or after general election, that Eamonn Gilmore(or whoever gets leader job) would have the courage of his/her convictions and not enter any government unless they are the bigger party.
So you want labour to be in opposition for the rest of their existance?
 

BarryW

Active member
Joined
Sep 8, 2003
Messages
262
borderlinegenius said:
Did you see the report in the Phoenix about this? It would seem that a pact will benefit Fine Gael, and will do nothing but damage Labour
Bear in mind: the Phoenix will write anything if they think it will stir shit within the FG/LAb camps, and will do anything to irk FG in particular.

The recent article on Limerick East; and the absolutely ridiculous profile of Dublin North East a few months ago are examples of this.

meriwether said:
The 1992 campaign was hugely successful- and fought on the back of a fiercely anti-FF message. I think Henry doesnt really know what he's at
Right on! But this point seems to have been lost on a lot of Labour people
Rule out FF entirely: Huge success (1992)
Ambiguity: Stagnation (as in 2002)

meriwether said:
Labour will lose out on second preferences from my people if they refuse to enter into a pact with us-and they could be useful to guard off challenges from SF in certain constituencies
Another excellent point - and this is sure to be a big selling point of Rabbitte's message at the conference. And not just from SF: from FF, independents as well.

I would consider my father to be a typical/average FG voter (if you could ever define that term)
Like many FG voters he has a deep suspicion towards Labour and some of the things they stand for.
He didn't pass on his preferences to Labour in 2002 for this reason; but he (grudgingly) admits to have passed on his vote to LAbour and even (shock horror) Democratic Left in 1997.
Why? Simply because there was a pact, and the three parties were working together in a common interest.

I'd imagine that many FG voters would think similarly- ie. without a pact, there is a definite chance that a preference for Labour may be a vote for coalition with FF. The absence of a pact will cost them transfers, and this will be fatal to them in many areas

meriwether said:
Merriweather, according to their detailed internal report, the Labour party will lose out in every single constituency where they are challenging for a seat, or defending a precarious seat
This "detailed internal report" was drawn up by Mick O' Reilly and Henry Haughton, to help them press their case at the NEC, was it not ??
Could you find a source that was any more biased ?!

youngfella said:
www.labourfirst.ie
Why is there a mugshot of Haughton on the front page of the site??
Is this a website dedicated to treachery and public affrontary against their party leader (as advertised); or is it a "Haughton for Labour Leader" campaign website ??
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top