Ardoyne Residents - Orange Order deal collapses

cut the begs

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
1,036
why dont they get their wemen out with brushes an clean that lane up.then they could march 365days a yr if they wanted..oh forgot there would be nobody there to annoy if they done that.
 


Had 327

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
470
Bands have been playing that Beach Boys song for years along with other mainstream pop culture songs. In recent years Rangers fans in Scotland have put different words to it called the Famine Song.
But obviously loyalist flute and drum bands these days are playing it to represent the Famine song, not the Beach Boys. Or at least SF thinks so.

CastleRay said:
When sung in Northern Ireland it makes no sense. Bands don't sing songs they just play Instruments but spectators have been known to add lyrics at parades.
I should've specified: I didn't mean only the loyalist flute and drum bands, but it seems to be popular among loyalists in general for some reason, including normal "bands" as any group of people that produce music together. As you said, it doesn't seem to make much sense when sung in NI.
 
Last edited:

O'Sullivan Bere

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
15,701
Firstly it,s a fallacy that the parade merely passes shop fronts, it didn't. The antagonistic approach by bands for three years wouldn't lend to your idea of fun music, it wouldn't happen. Given the Somme anniverary tomorrow a morning parade could be managed despite GARC objections.
The alternative is a long term stand off witch benefits no one.
It's the last thing you mentioned why I was wondering if such an offer could avoid another round of the usual rocks, bricks, water cannons and Molotovs.

It could be a way to call the hand. If it's just about 'culture' that's legitimately intended and means no disrespect, then IMO that's a way for them to put up or shut up. If they reject that, then it pretty much shows the objective is the old Drumcree 'in your face' stuff and ends the 'innocent intentions' cover stories. If, however, they bite that olive branch where more reasonable minds and well intended types see that as a solution because they merely want to celebrate legitimately and offer the constructive olive branch too, then good can come from it.

It's not like the July celebrations are going to go away. It's how it gets done that's always the issue. Some prefer class, and some prefer to drag knuckles. Same for the CNR types who are also just looking for excuses to p!ss in PUL porridge and brawl versus those who actually do and believe in cultural equality and being good neighbours.

Thankfully there's far more of the people who don't want trouble than not. They just don't get enough of the kind of voice, representation and resulting influence they require, whereas the FU types and troublemakers get too much of it. Ardoyne could sure use a break from that given the raucous over the past few years.
 
Last edited:

O'Sullivan Bere

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
15,701
Unfortunately "The Famine Song" is regarded by the CNR community as not being a "fun Irish song". I guess GARC need to embrace Loyalist supremacism and work on their sense of fun for this one to reach a resolution.
Well hehe, obviously I'm not referring to that one and specifically ruled that out. A clean parade rather than a riot is what's optimal. That song and things like it already get sanctioned by the Parades Commission and should be.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
15,701
Bands have been playing that Beach Boys song for years along with other mainstream pop culture songs. In recent years Rangers fans in Scotland have put different words to it called the Famine Song. When sung in Northern Ireland it makes no sense. Bands don't sing songs they just play Instruments but spectators have been known to add lyrics at parades.
In fairness everyone knows a jovial presentation of the Beach Boys isn't intended there even in NI. If someone is playing to the beat of 'She'll Be Coming 'Round the Mountain', everyone knows that isn't the harmless folk song.

It just doesn't pass the 'red face test' if a band claims innocent intents on that well known stuff. Same with hoods that claim they wore ski masks at the local disturbance because of the weather. I haven't seen too many baseball diamonds but yet baseball bats seem popular enough with hoods, etc.

That said, there's plenty legitimate stuff that's played of a festive nature beyond just reflecting PUL culture. As mentioned, many bands now participate in St Pat's parades across Ireland where it's been good stuff and good progress. It's not just traditional Bluegrass, Folk, Country Ulster Scot and/or Irish songs but things like "Last of the Mohicans" and such where bands do excellent renditions, and all that stuff puts up a good show.
 
Last edited:

CastleRay

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
9,162
In fairness everyone knows a jovial presentation of the Beach Boys isn't intended there even in NI. If someone is playing to the beat of 'She'll Be Coming 'Round the Mountain', everyone knows that isn't the harmless folk song.

It just doesn't pass the 'red face test' if a band claims innocent intents on that well known stuff. Same with hoods that claim they wore ski masks at the local disturbance because of the weather. I haven't seen too many baseball diamonds but yet baseball bats seem popular enough with hoods, etc.

That said, there's plenty legitimate stuff that's played of a festive nature beyond just reflecting PUL culture. As mentioned, many bands now participate in St Pat's parades across Ireland where it's been good stuff and good progress. It's not just traditional Bluegrass, Folk, Country Ulster Scot and/or Irish songs but things like "Last of the Mohicans" and such where bands do excellent renditions, and all that stuff puts up a good show.
When a band plays 64 or Yellow Submarine by the Beatles, what does it mean to you? Sloop John B, 64, Yellow Submarine et have been popular ones for decades and long before adapted by others who may have introduced alternative lyrics. I'm not saying these songs haven't been potentially played to get an alternative rise out of spectators but every time they are played it is not for the reasons suggested.

Btw, I've never heard a band play "She'll be coming round the mountain", what's the inference that song makes to you?
 

Aristodemus

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
3,696
Bastards, I applied a month before the Brexit vote to replace mine and it's still in processing.
The new passport card, which is valid throughout Europe is an online application. I ordered it on a Friday evening and had it on Monday morning. You even take the photo with your camera phone.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
15,701
When a band plays 64 or Yellow Submarine by the Beatles, what does it mean to you? Sloop John B, 64, Yellow Submarine et have been popular ones for decades and long before adapted by others who may have introduced alternative lyrics. I'm not saying these songs haven't been potentially played to get an alternative rise out of spectators but every time they are played it is not for the reasons suggested.
Some common sense is in order though. It's sort of like porn versus artistic nudity..."you know it when you see it" regarding what's intended specifically or mischievous double entendre on the bad side versus the innocent.

The Beach Boys have sung loads of hits, so why pick that one given the prevalence of the offensive sectarian rendition. Pick another Beach Boys song or anything else that isn't going to draw trouble.

Btw, I've never heard a band play "She'll be coming round the mountain", what's the inference that song makes to you?
In loyalist circles,
Loyalist - Bobby Sands
 

O'Sullivan Bere

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
15,701
The new passport card, which is valid throughout Europe is an online application. I ordered it on a Friday evening and had it on Monday morning. You even take the photo with your camera phone.
Yes, that's how I did it and even using my phone for the photo. Just have your credit card ready and they'll post it.

Here's the link if anyone wants one...it's very useful ID for the wallet and valid for travel within the EEA and Switzerland.
Online Irish Passport Card Application
 

death or glory

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
20,190
Some common sense is in order though. It's sort of like porn versus artistic nudity..."you know it when you see it" regarding what's intended specifically or mischievous double entendre on the bad side versus the innocent.

The Beach Boys have sung loads of hits, so why pick that one given the prevalence of the offensive sectarian rendition. Pick another Beach Boys song or anything else that isn't going to draw trouble.

In loyalist circles,
Loyalist - Bobby Sands
Bere,
thanks for the song, I knew it as "Do you want a chicken supper Bobby sands" its an oldie but a goodie.

Just because a tune has Loyalist Lyrics doesn't mean it is bad, that would mean every tune could be potentially be controversial if someone posted a few lyrics on facebook.
And these loyalists lyrics, how many people do you think know the words?
In the case of the Beach boys hit and the famine song, I was not aware of the tune or the Lyrics as it was mostly a Rangers favourite.

Also playing these tunes to people that know the tune is not controversial, it can be a crowd pleaser if the location and timing is correct, but I agree it should not be played in an antagonising area.
how many
 

O'Sullivan Bere

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
15,701
Bere,
thanks for the song, I knew it as "Do you want a chicken supper Bobby sands" its an oldie but a goodie.

Just because a tune has Loyalist Lyrics doesn't mean it is bad, that would mean every tune could be potentially be controversial if someone posted a few lyrics on facebook.
And these loyalists lyrics, how many people do you think know the words?
In the case of the Beach boys hit and the famine song, I was not aware of the tune or the Lyrics as it was mostly a Rangers favourite.

Also playing these tunes to people that know the tune is not controversial, it can be a crowd pleaser if the location and timing is correct, but I agree it should not be played in an antagonising area.
how many
No argument that not all loyalist tunes are objectively offensive just as not all Republican ones are. In fact, CNRs would likely even share common agreement with getting screwed by the power brokers across the water with this one IMO, also notable given the Somme commemorations today.
1st July 1916 -- The Englishman's Betrayal (rare footage)
But everyone with a clue knows what the intent was here:
Orange Order playing the Famine Song at St Patricks Church, New Lodge, 12/07/2012
I wouldn't even do that in solid PUL areas. Everyone has a camera these days, and it gives a bad name across the PUL community regarding July parades, most not deserving it. When PUL extremists and thugs do offensive sh!thead things like that, it also gives CNR extremists and thugs an excuse to do the same themselves or riot, etc. Birds of a feather flock together that way.

Take the bonfires for example. The July bonfires have a very accurate and legitimate purpose in Irish history relating to the Williamite War, never mind the PUL community as part of that history. But a Catholic could be forgiven for not knowing it or ignoring that aspect thanks to sectarian BS such as deliberately offensive and threatening racist and xenophobic bonfires with Papal flags, Tricolours with KAT sprayed on them, new immigrant flags such as Polish etc, getting torched upon them. Of course, copycat hardcore Defenderist Republican bonfires have done the same thing too, and that's the race down the toilets insofar as making cross community respect and relations better.

It's like anything public...when it's done with Class rather than Klass, things go fine and even make things better. Some day it would be nice to even get to a point where CNRs might actually enjoy PUL celebrations for the music and craic and vice versa, especially since nearly everyone in Ulster has the blood of both in them anyway where ancestors were involved in both aspects of things like the Williamite War.

That's presumptively a long way off thanks to the toxicities past and present, but it's worth starting the walk towards it. Sometimes progress even happens remarkably quick once the Golden Rule is respected and performed.
 
Last edited:

mac tíre

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
8,289
Bere,
thanks for the song, I knew it as "Do you want a chicken supper Bobby sands" its an oldie but a goodie.
Seriously...grow up and stop being a bin lid.

**Cue Led Zeppelin's Whole Lotta Love**

And at Number 3 we have got Adam Ants - Stand and Deliver.
At Number 2 it's 'Loyalists' - Bobby Sands.
And, at number 1 this week, it's Shakin' Stevens...

My guess is your children hear what you are singing but have no real idea what you are talking about - the equivalent to singing Lili Marleen now - stupid.
 

Enigma Variations

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
8,778
Some common sense is in order though. It's sort of like porn versus artistic nudity..."you know it when you see it" regarding what's intended specifically or mischievous double entendre on the bad side versus the innocent.

The Beach Boys have sung loads of hits, so why pick that one given the prevalence of the offensive sectarian rendition. Pick another Beach Boys song or anything else that isn't going to draw trouble.
Perfectly put.
When a band plays Sloop John B outside a Catholic church, going round and round in a circle, and the taig-trolling camp followers accompany the music with the lyrics of the Famine Song, there is no further argument.
Castle Ray seems to be suggesting that these events collide quite accidentally. :roll:
Hopeless argument.
 

vivabrigada

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
20,099
Bere,
thanks for the song, I knew it as "Do you want a chicken supper Bobby sands" its an oldie but a goodie.

Just because a tune has Loyalist Lyrics doesn't mean it is bad, that would mean every tune could be potentially be controversial if someone posted a few lyrics on facebook.
And these loyalists lyrics, how many people do you think know the words?
In the case of the Beach boys hit and the famine song, I was not aware of the tune or the Lyrics as it was mostly a Rangers favourite.

Also playing these tunes to people that know the tune is not controversial, it can be a crowd pleaser if the location and timing is correct, but I agree it should not be played in an antagonising area.
how many
When loyalist were singing "if you can't do the bouncey you're a t@ig' while six feet away from you while passing through your area, objections from locals are understable,
The law ageed and banned them.
 
Last edited:

fitzroyalty

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
760
Perfectly put.
When a band plays Sloop John B outside a Catholic church, going round and round in a circle, and the taig-trolling camp followers accompany the music with the lyrics of the Famine Song, there is no further argument.
Castle Ray seems to be suggesting that these events collide quite accidentally. :roll:
Hopeless argument.
Not to mention chief milkman losing the rag at the person filming it, I wonder why?
 

CastleRay

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
9,162
Some common sense is in order though. It's sort of like porn versus artistic nudity..."you know it when you see it" regarding what's intended specifically or mischievous double entendre on the bad side versus the innocent.
As I said, some tunes may be played to get a rise out of spectators for the alternative lyrics. But that doesn't mean every time the tune is played it is done for that reason.

The Beach Boys have sung loads of hits, so why pick that one given the prevalence of the offensive sectarian rendition. Pick another Beach Boys song or anything else that isn't going to draw trouble.
Because it is popular but critically lends itself to the melody and tempo of a marching band. That's why most were originally played. Sloop John B has been played for years, no decades, by bands in NI before football fans in Scotland came up with their lyrics to the same tune. Every time alternative lyrics surface does that render the tune off limits? Don't think so. For most people the alternative is unknown.

Surfin USA, Deuce Coupe, Wouldn't it be Nice etc just don't lend themselves to traditional marching bands here but the Regal Band used to play California Girls if I recall correctly. Sadly that band no longer marches. If there were more bands like that, there'd be a more carnival atmosphere at parades.

I've never heard that tune played by a band on parade (granted I haven't seen too many parades for some time now). I've heard of a variation of that song before but not like that.
 

Enigma Variations

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
8,778
As I said, some tunes may be played to get a rise out of spectators for the alternative lyrics. But that doesn't mean every time the tune is played it is done for that reason................................. Every time alternative lyrics surface does that render the tune off limits? Don't think so. For most people the alternative is unknown.
Except that the YCV band who created the controversy on this in the first place weren't any old band. They are an obsessively sectarian rabble. A quick glance at their Facebook page is all that is needed. Here's a flavour:
Dirty wee f*ckin scumbag republican f*cks. By the looks eh it they aren't even out their nappies ffs. Shower a taig f*cks.
These people are not the sort of role models that anyone should encourage in a civilised society.
Quite frankly they are savages and an embarrassment to decent unionists and to wider society in Ireland.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,782
Castle Ray the whole Loyalist implausible denial routine which sadly you are engaging here- I honestly thought better of you- is one of the principle reasons why so many people across these Isles whatever their views of the border consider our folk educationally sub-normal irrational dangerous trash, have you no pride?
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top