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Are FF the most 'Catholic' of the major parties?


Colin M

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Jul 23, 2012
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While it is never really conclusively said in the media, I think there are enough examples to say that the ties of FF to Catholicism, are argubaly stronger than that of the other parties:

1. The general crossover of modern republicanism with catholicism, and FF being the branded 'republican' party

2. The 'advice' given by JC Mcquaid to De Valera on the drafting of the 1937 Constitution, along with a very close working relationship between the two men

3. On this site, the majority of staunch 'pro-life' people who like to use terminology like 'baby killers' for those with a different view, have either FF avatars, or are 'closet' supporters.

4. Michael Woods - rumoured to be a member of Opus Dei - controversial compensation deal with the Cathoic Church on institutional abuse, while a Minister.

5. Dermot Ahern introducing a 'blasphemy law', while Minister for Justice

Are the others steeped to the same degree in conservative catholicism?

FG A mainly conservative party, but also one with a noticeable social democrat wing, over the years. Won the 'protestant' vote, over the years.
Labour Pro Abortion, pro gay rights, among other things.
SF Younger members tend to be left of centre.

Micheal Martin is obviously trying his best to market his party, as one for modern 21st c Ireland. But, some of the examples I have used are way too recent, to be able to get the feeling that FF has completely cut itself off from this thinking.
 

wombat

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They may become so by default, if the govt. get the abortion law wrong (from a political view).
 

Marcos the black

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The most treacherous? Definitely.
 

ne0ica

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I would say FG is more Catholic. FF like everything else including Republicanism plays lip service.
 

Eire1976

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Is anyone in Ireland Catholic anymore, never mind Christian?

If we were to classify our outlook we should be protestant.
 

Toland

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They may become so by default, if the govt. get the abortion law wrong (from a political view).
If FG get the abortion law right and Fianna Fáil oppose them, then Fianna Fáil will inevitably become the Christian Solidarity Party lite.

There is no long-term future in that particular niche. Attaching itself to a dying conservative and grey vote will seal the fate of Fianna Fáil. That said, Fianna Fáil are short-termist enough to let that happen.
 

Colin M

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Jul 23, 2012
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If FG get the abortion law right and Fianna Fáil oppose them, then Fianna Fáil will inevitably become the Christian Solidarity Party lite.

There is no long-term future in that particular niche. Attaching itself to a dying conservative and grey vote will seal the fate of Fianna Fáil. That said, Fianna Fáil are short-termist enough to let that happen.
Don't forget that taking this stance can win FF many new votes with recent citizens, many of whom attend places of worship on a weekly basis. Younger, more liberal people, are leaving the country in big numbers.
 

wombat

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There is no long-term future in that particular niche. Attaching itself to a dying conservative and grey vote will seal the fate of Fianna Fáil. That said, Fianna Fáil are short-termist enough to let that happen.
You obviously are not actively involved with a political party, the next election is considered long term planning.
 

Toland

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Don't forget that taking this stance can win FF many new votes with recent citizens, many of whom attend places of worship on a weekly basis. Younger, more liberal people, are leaving the country in big numbers.
I don't think the phenomena you speak of involve sufficient numbers to make any real difference.
 

Rocky

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You obviously are not actively involved with a political party, the next election is considered long term planning.
Sure why have it any other way.

The people clearly don't remember what happened before the previous election.
 

Casualbets

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Jun 7, 2004
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1,638
While it is never really conclusively said in the media, I think there are enough examples to say that the ties of FF to Catholicism, are argubaly stronger than that of the other parties:

1. The general crossover of modern republicanism with catholicism, and FF being the branded 'republican' party

2. The 'advice' given by JC Mcquaid to De Valera on the drafting of the 1937 Constitution, along with a very close working relationship between the two men

3. On this site, the majority of staunch 'pro-life' people who like to use terminology like 'baby killers' for those with a different view, have either FF avatars, or are 'closet' supporters.

4. Michael Woods - rumoured to be a member of Opus Dei - controversial compensation deal with the Cathoic Church on institutional abuse, while a Minister.

5. Dermot Ahern introducing a 'blasphemy law', while Minister for Justice

Are the others steeped to the same degree in conservative catholicism?

FG A mainly conservative party, but also one with a noticeable social democrat wing, over the years. Won the 'protestant' vote, over the years.
Labour Pro Abortion, pro gay rights, among other things.
SF Younger members tend to be left of centre.

Micheal Martin is obviously trying his best to market his party, as one for modern 21st c Ireland. But, some of the examples I have used are way too recent, to be able to get the feeling that FF has completely cut itself off from this thinking.
An interesting question and hard to quantify.

Fine Gael would certainly - historically - have been the more "orthodox" Catholic party.
 

statsman

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Feb 25, 2011
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56,230
Is anyone in Ireland Catholic anymore, never mind Christian?

If we were to classify our outlook we should be protestant.
Tell that to The Field Marshall.
 

wombat

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Jun 16, 2007
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Sure why have it any other way.

The people clearly don't remember what happened before the previous election.
Not sure about that. Look at the practicalities - if you don't get elected, you achieve nothing.
 

cb1979

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Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
825
While it is never really conclusively said in the media, I think there are enough examples to say that the ties of FF to Catholicism, are argubaly stronger than that of the other parties:

1. The general crossover of modern republicanism with catholicism, and FF being the branded 'republican' party

2. The 'advice' given by JC Mcquaid to De Valera on the drafting of the 1937 Constitution, along with a very close working relationship between the two men

3. On this site, the majority of staunch 'pro-life' people who like to use terminology like 'baby killers' for those with a different view, have either FF avatars, or are 'closet' supporters.

4. Michael Woods - rumoured to be a member of Opus Dei - controversial compensation deal with the Cathoic Church on institutional abuse, while a Minister.

5. Dermot Ahern introducing a 'blasphemy law', while Minister for Justice

Are the others steeped to the same degree in conservative catholicism?

FG A mainly conservative party, but also one with a noticeable social democrat wing, over the years. Won the 'protestant' vote, over the years.
Labour Pro Abortion, pro gay rights, among other things.
SF Younger members tend to be left of centre.

Micheal Martin is obviously trying his best to market his party, as one for modern 21st c Ireland. But, some of the examples I have used are way too recent, to be able to get the feeling that FF has completely cut itself off from this thinking.
I think the idea of Fianna Fáil as the conservative Catholic party in Ireland is a bit of a fallacy and doesn't stand up when you look at 20th century Irish history. Most of the legislation that was brought in to correspond with Catholic social teaching such as the ban on the divorce, censorship and the ban on the advertisements of contreception happened during the Cumann na nGaedhael period in office.

Southern Ireland was Catholic and conservative and it wasn't imposed from above by political parties. If a political party was to advocate a liberalisation and securalisation of Irish society they just wouldn't have been elected. De Valera was a very devout Catholic but he was far less deferential to the church than either Fine Gael, or even Labour bizarrely enough, during his period as leader. I think this was probably because he was more confident in his position as leader of the largest party in the state and more jealous of his role as a leader of the Irish people and he wasn't going to abdicate that position, even to the hierarchy.

He resisted enormous pressure from the bishops and from the more extreme sections of the laity to craft a specifically Catholic constitution. Despite the articles recognising the church as the largest religious body representing the majority of Irish people and the article dealing with women's place in the home, Bunreacht na hEireann was remarkable for its liberal, democratic nature. Most of the bishops, and Rome, were very disappointed that Catholicism was not recognised as the established, state religion. McQuaid himself was quite wary of Fianna Fáil, despite the links between him and the de Valera family through Blackrock College, because he regarded Fianna Fáil as liberals and Fine Gael as the authentic conservative party.

Fianna Fáil did take a lurch to Catholic conservativism under Haughey, first as Minister for Health and then as leader. Most of this was pure opportunism for electoral reasons. Firstly for his ambitions for leadership where he was building up his base among the rural, socially conservative membership outside Dublin and, later, to win votes away from Fitzgerald when he engaged in his constitutional crusade.
 

Colin M

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Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
5,356
An interesting question and hard to quantify.

Fine Gael would certainly - historically - have been the more "orthodox" Catholic party.
A certian percentage of their TDs would be in that mould. But at the same time a former leader of theirs, publicly described himself as pro-abortion and pro-divorce, back in the 1980's.
 
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