Are Fianna Fail Chasing The Anti-Abortion Vote? If So Then What Are The Consequences?

Sync

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Obviously they do but repealing the 8th is not a priority for the 30% who are plumping for Fianna Fail currently. If it was, they wouldn't be going for FF, who are the least likely party to introduce abortion legislation.
By this (Incredibly flawed logic) then it IS a priority for the people who are moving to FG? It's gibberish thinking. You're starting from what you want things to be like and then fitting polling figures to suit you.
 


The_SR

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It was a vote on the 8th. A sizable amount voted to keep it.

UCD is strongly liberal and many of the students are from the surrounding areas, I don't know how you couldn't know that.

People knew full well who Ascough was before she was elected. That's why they smeared her online, abused those who canvassed for her, and ripped apart her posters on campus.
It was a vote on maintaining the unions pro choice stance. Some voters would be pro choice and think the union should be neutral.

If you want to extrapolate that out and claim it trumps all opinion polls, good for you.

She was exposed by a college paper and Katie Martin and Katie Ascough were linked. She explicitly did not run on an anti abortion ticket.
 

The_SR

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And because she made it very clear she was NOT standing as a pro-life candidate, she was a candidate who happened to be pro-life and was focused on microwaves. The effort by some on both sides of this to pigeon hole this girl into a slot that suits their needs is very unfair.
She made that clear when confronted. She had no intention of touching it until rumbled
 

flavirostris

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By this (Incredibly flawed logic) then it IS a priority for the people who are moving to FG? It's gibberish thinking. You're starting from what you want things to be like and then fitting polling figures to suit you.
Look at it this way. If you were someone who strongly favoured repeal, would you be telling pollsters that you intend to vote Fianna Fail?

Of course not. 30% of those being polled are choosing FF, which means they cannot be repealers.
 

slysnara

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It was a vote on maintaining the unions pro choice stance. Some voters would be pro choice and think the union should be neutral.

If you want to extrapolate that out and claim it trumps all opinion polls, good for you.

She was exposed by a college paper and Katie Martin and Katie Ascough were linked. She explicitly did not run on an anti abortion ticket.
People don't vote against their own interests. Everyone who actively campaigned for a No vote was pro-life. It was well understood that neutrality = pro-life. The whole point of desiring neutrality was pro-life students didn't want to be alienated by their own SU.

Ascough campaigned for a no vote in that referendum and then ran for President. She felt there was a sizable pro-life vote, enough that she could gather together to win the Presidency, and she was right.

It's worth noting that the percentage that voted no to abortion, voted for Ascough to be elected President and voted to keep her in office were all within 6% of each other. The same people voted the same way three times.

Hence why I suggested Fianna Fáil could take her example. She gathered everyone on one side of the abortion debate together and it gave her the Presidency.
 
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Sync

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Look at it this way. If you were someone who strongly favoured repeal, would you be telling pollsters that you intend to vote Fianna Fail?

Of course not. 30% of those being polled are choosing FF, which means they cannot be repealers.
So again: Going by this incredibly infantile and flawed logic that puts people in a binary box based on one policy: All the other parties are in favour of repeal. So that means 70% are for it right? If they're choosing parties in favour of it, this means they must be repealers.

Such flawed "thinking".
 

flavirostris

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So again: Going by this incredibly infantile and flawed logic that puts people in a binary box based on one policy: All the other parties are in favour of repeal. So that means 70% are for it right? If they're choosing parties in favour of it, this means they must be repealers.

Such flawed "thinking".
I don't know why you have to be so petulant. I'm just pointing out that FF's strong recovery proves that the abortion thing is not a drag on their support. In fact they seem to be thriving on it.
 

Odyessus

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Yes but how many FF'ers will vote to remove the 8th?

Leo will shade most of the Liberal Vote.

I don't follow you. If few or any FF deputies would vote to repeal the eighth, (which is what I understand you to be implying), why bother having a free vote? Why not just make it party policy to oppose the bill?
 

Fr Peter McWhinger

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I don't follow you. If few or any FF deputies would vote to repeal the eighth, (which is what I understand you to be implying), why bother having a free vote? Why not just make it party policy to oppose the bill?

The purpose of the free vote is to virtue signal to repealers in the electorate. ERGO FF stance decided on conscience of individual Parliamentary Party Members. Have the cake and eat as much of it as possible.
 

The_SR

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People don't vote against their own interests. Everyone who actively campaigned for a No vote was pro-life. It was well understood that neutrality = pro-life. The whole point of desiring neutrality was pro-life students didn't want to be alienated by their own SU.

Ascough campaigned for a no vote in that referendum and then ran for President. She felt there was a sizable pro-life vote, enough that she could gather together to win the Presidency, and she was right.

It's worth noting that the percentage that voted no to abortion, voted for Ascough to be elected President and voted to keep her in office were all within 6% of each other. The same people voted the same way three times.

Hence why I suggested Fianna Fáil could take her example. She gathered everyone on one side of the abortion debate together and it gave her the Presidency.
Oh I think FF could learn something from her dishonesty alright. That's why I think that's where she will end up. Ronan Mullen Nua.

Fatal flaw in your logic. She didn't run on an anti abortion ticket. She hid that.

If this is the Iona brains trust this will be a gallop home.
 

The_SR

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I don't follow you. If few or any FF deputies would vote to repeal the eighth, (which is what I understand you to be implying), why bother having a free vote? Why not just make it party policy to oppose the bill?
Didn't tbey make it policy at the Ard Fheis?
 

slysnara

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Oh I think FF could learn something from her dishonesty alright. That's why I think that's where she will end up. Ronan Mullen Nua.

Fatal flaw in your logic. She didn't run on an anti abortion ticket. She hid that.

If this is the Iona brains trust this will be a gallop home.
You seem to be missing the point. Pro-life people voted for her because they knew her position on that, and those who voted for the others based largely on them being pro-repeal.

Hence why I brought her up in a discussion about Fianna Fáil - the pro-life vote was large enough to give her victory as repealers were split between other candidates. Thus Fianna Fáil could hoover up all the pro-life vote by becoming the pro-life party, which would help them in elections, instead of pro-life voters voting for various parties.

There's a large group of young people who are pro-life and have no major party to back. Fianna Fáil could gain their support by being the pro-life party.
 

The_SR

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You seem to be missing the point. Pro-life people voted for her because they knew her position on that, and those who voted for the others based largely on them being pro-repeal.

Hence why I brought her up in a discussion about Fianna Fáil - the pro-life vote was large enough to give her victory as repealers were split between other candidates. Thus Fianna Fáil could hoover up all the pro-life vote by becoming the pro-life party, which would help them in elections, instead of pro-life voters voting for various parties.

There's a large group of young people who are pro-life and have no major party to back. Fianna Fáil could gain their support by being the pro-life party.
You think that her position was known. The fact the college papers felt they had to expose her and she had to comment on it says otherwise.

I'm not convinced there are the numbers, and certainly not the youth numbers, who are single issue voters on this. There is a loud O'Taliban fringe who have a history of dirt tactics, but I think this will harm them as there is a large majority in favour of repeal. Wjat it is replaced with is a different story.
 

slysnara

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You think that her position was known. The fact the college papers felt they had to expose her and she had to comment on it says otherwise.

I'm not convinced there are the numbers, and certainly not the youth numbers, who are single issue voters on this. There is a loud O'Taliban fringe who have a history of dirt tactics, but I think this will harm them as there is a large majority in favour of repeal. Wjat it is replaced with is a different story.
It was. Why else would this otherwise random unknown lady have her posters ripped apart, be called a bitch online and have people verbally abuse her candidates during the election campaign?
 

Sync

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You seem to be missing the point. Pro-life people voted for her because they knew her position on that, and those who voted for the others based largely on them being pro-repeal.
She fundamentally disagrees with your view. But screw her what does she know right? She's just a blob of carbon for people to project their views on.
 

Odyessus

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It was lead item that day.

Really? I don't know how I missed that.

Edit: I just looked it up. It seems FF's policy of allowing a free vote on the matter hasn't changed, which explains why the story was not such big news.

"It has been pointed out that Fianna Fáil's representatives in Dáil Éireann and the Seanad will have a free vote regardless of how the Ard Fheis has voted — nevertheless, it is a major statement from Ireland's second largest party to come out against the referendum."

https://www.joe.ie/news/fianna-fail-ard-fheis-votes-oppose-repeal-irelands-eighth-amendment-603769

 
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slysnara

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She fundamentally disagrees with your view. But screw her what does she know right? She's just a blob of carbon for people to project their views on.
She wanted to be a candidate 'for all' and act as a bridge between the two sides but that's not how it went down.

Her opponents were never going to allow a backward stupid pro-life person have the most important job in the entire country, the Presidency of an SU that most students in it's own college don't care about.

Instead, pro-choicers made her a martyr and a figure with name recognition among the general public. Great strategy from them.
 

The_SR

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It was. Why else would this otherwise random unknown lady have her posters ripped apart, be called a bitch online and have people verbally abuse her candidates during the election campaign?
That's politics. We might not like it but there is nothing unique or interesting about it.
 


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