• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Are Irish journalists the most conformist in Western Europe?


Colin M

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
5,350
This thread is started by me to ask those ex-pats who lived and worked in the likes of France, Germany, etc, if they have noticed a substantial difference in the quality of media, and range of opinions from commentators, as compared to here in good ol Ireland?

As for Ireland, from a personal view - it seems to me that our media in general tow the line on the likes of the current economic measures, and our relationship with the European Union, is overwhelmingly seen as positive.

Also, it is not so long ago that several of them closed ranks on former Taoiseach's Brian Cowen's 'tired and emotional' behaviour in Galway. Also, there is a distinct lack of discussion from commentators as to where Irish society is heading in the post-Celtic Tiger years.

I also find that a lot of the political correspondents on TV/Radio tend to parrott what was said in Leinster House by the politicians, instead of providing their actual thoughts on what was said.

Ultimately, it feels like the profession gives way to the 'small country syndrome', where it is very important to avoid potentially p1ssing off those in power.

As someone who is too unfamiliar with the papers and networks on the continent, do they simply care less about criticising powerful people and institutions?
 


carruthers

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
4,193
They share a great deal of blame for the sh1t we find ourselves in. Especially INM.
 

Sense 0f Wonder

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
2,508
I think one finds compliant media everywhere in the world. By and large, journalists are not rebellious types (despite the Hollywood image).

What characterizes Irish media in particular (and in comparison to the media I know best --the United States) is the laziness and the "ah shure it'll do" mentality that often prevails among media people here. That would be fine, if some of them weren't so overpaid for the size of the market.
 

Airwave

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
885
Don't underestimate the introduction of Section 31 in the 1970s .it was a show of force from the state and finished any free spirit that may have been left in the country's newsrooms . The media from then on was a mouthpiece for the official line ,you only have to look to the resent past to see the damage under reporting and downright propaganda has done . throw in the O'Reilly factory at Independent newsgroup and you had a recipe for disaster.
 

Pudna

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
1,925
I think one finds compliant media everywhere in the world. By and large, journalists are not rebellious types (despite the Hollywood image).

What characterizes Irish media in particular (and in comparison to the media I know best --the United States) is the laziness and the "ah shure it'll do" mentality that often prevails among media people here. That would be fine, if some of them weren't so overpaid for the size of the market.
RTE controls the media, the print journalists keep a safe line, and are rewarded with appearances on RTE. I do not want rebellious journalists, I would appreciate if RTE ones did a bit more than repeat press releases, offering no analysis other than predicting likely responses from other politicians.
 

Eire1976

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
14,152
The media in Ireland is tainted from the start becuse it has been used as a tool of social control.
 

davoid

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
9,711
I dont think they toe the politicians line.

But they are like a herd of sheep - not an original thought among the lot of them. They seek to outdo each other in whatever - usually negative and carping - sentiments they peddle.

For example on 3 different programmes alone on RTe today (plus one on Newstalk) I heard segments about cuts in child benefit - with the duly affected family of 6 produced in each case to demostrate how awful/savage/inhuman etc the cuts were.

I'm not arguing that this should not be referred to, but where was the journalist who would say - look we are bankrupt and have to cut universal benefits? There seems to be only one side to this debate among our scribblers, some of whom can do joined up writing.
 

Shqiptar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
6,309
We're a conformist people. Why should our journalists be different?

In all fairness, the non-conformists (V Browne springs to mind) tend to be of the ranting rather than the incisive variety. The Irish Daily Mail does do some hard-hitting front-pagers but it all tends to be rather unfocused and hysterical.
 

Colin M

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
5,350
Can anyone here give a short analysis of the media in other countries, like I said?
 

Pudna

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
1,925
Can anyone here give a short analysis of the media in other countries, like I said?
Journalists in national broadcasters of Nordic countries are intelligent, respectful and incisive in their reporting and analysis (IMO)
 

Con Gallagher

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
2,413
Can anyone here give a short analysis of the media in other countries, like I said?
Sorry I can't help with that, but here's a very short analysis of the media in this small parish.

Media need three things: owners, readers/viewers and advertising revenue.

The first set the agenda and tone.
The second narrows the material to what the public are interested in (rather than expensive public interest stories) and what stories the government press office brief them on.
The third ensures the establishment/commercial interests get the final say (eg property supplements, bank advertisements, cars)

Now open a newspaper. Count the percentage space taken up with:
- opinion pieces or regurgitated press releases in the middle class papers
- sport, celebrity and outrage stories for the plebs.

Now look at the hacks:
- where were they educated?
- who was involved in union politics when they were in college?
- who gave them their first real job?
- who pays them now?

Finally, if you want a final depressing reason to think why the media is so poor. Look at the education system which had thought millions of viewers/readers what to think but not how to think.

Like the politicians, we get the media we deserve.
 

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,722
Can anyone here give a short analysis of the media in other countries, like I said?
IME, French TV journalists tend to be fairly craven - things like a politician being given the list of questions he is to be asked, and sometimes scoring some of them out used to be the norm. It has improved, but there is very little tradition of aggressive questioning. There have been a few instances, and I think it's better than it used to be, but tbh the BBC has more of a belief that it is, or should be, independent. (whether it actually is or not may be another question).

Newspaper journalists here are a bit less of a pushover, but often politically on one side or the other. Also, although France is a lot bigger than Ireland, IMO there is too much daily contact between media and political types to be entirely healthy. It is no coincidence that Pdt Hollande's new partner is a journalist. They are not the only such couple.

There used to be a really good independent website, Le Post, where anyone could write articles, and the site moderated them as necessary, but it got taken over by the Huffington Post and Anne Sinclair, DSK's ex, and is now basically another political mouthpiece.

Maybe someone else will have a more positive view of things in France - that is just my own personal opinion. I would be interested to hear others.
 

Andrew49

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
6,048
Twitter
AndrewSB49
Irish politicians and Irish journalists are a cosy club who cover each others backs. How else to explain them keeping quiet on Enda's racist 'joke'?

Clearly, [Kenny] had deliberated about telling the 'joke', decided it was appropriate to do so and thought that it could remain just a private matter between the good old boys of the press corps and the good old boys of Leinster House. Nothing racist, or wrong, about using''n1gger' to get a laugh, because it was just a story, not a set-piece joke.News of his choice of language and anecdote did not appear in Thursday's, Friday's or Saturday's newspapers.

So initially, at least, Kenny's calculation was correct.

Perhaps most of the journalists at the party thought that it was appropriate for the leader of Fine Gael to use the word 'n1gger', perhaps they found it amusing, but they certainly didn't consider it all that newsworthy. Maybe it is common for Irish politicians to use abusive racial epithets in their everyday language, maybe not.


What is apparent, however, is that many of the journalists who attended the function deemed it more important to maintain a compact with their political contacts than with their readers. To report on Kenny's speech would have been to break the code, and risk what? Exclusion from the club? No more stories dropped in their laps? Confrontation? Who knows. But it was always possible that one or more of those present would consider his words inappropriate and report them.

If his first calculation failed, Kenny's second calculation must have been that if that happened, no one would care. That remains to be seen.
Enda Kenny is a stupid man who should resign but won't - National News - Independent.ie
 

Frank Galton

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
1,367
France has a somewhat similar phenomenon whereby the state-led channels can really dominate the daily news circle ... what they report on in the morning then is the major topic during the day on talk shows, the evening political chat, and then onto the headlines of the papers the next morning. In particular it can seem micro-issue driven like Ireland e.g. the way that the loss of 750 jobs at a steel plant -- not a big number of jobs for France and in old-line industry -- catapulted into a weeks-long headache for Hollande. Of course the UK also has the state broadcaster but the print media are a powerful counterweight in setting the agenda. In Ireland the print media are more force-multipliers for the carping and negativity (or boosterism as it was the Toiger days).
 

sondagefaux

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
15,675
British press - say no more.

TV/Radio

ITV/Sky - generally drivel when it comes to hard news or investigative journalism. The days of ITV documentaries like Death On The Rock are long gone.

BBC - individual journalists can be confrontational; the BBC is generally supportive of the 'establishment' although not necessarily the government of the day, not surprising since it's the state-owned, taxpayer-funded, national broadcaster which essentially reflects the broad national consensus on most issues.

Channel 4 - Channel 4 news is about the most intelligent of the mainstream news programmes, Dispatches and Unreported World are often very good.
 

Colin M

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
5,350
There used to be a really good independent website, Le Post, where anyone could write articles, and the site moderated them as necessary, but it got taken over by the Huffington Post and Anne Sinclair, DSK's ex, and is now basically another political mouthpiece.

Maybe someone else will have a more positive view of things in France - that is just my own personal opinion. I would be interested to hear others.
Interesting. Reading the Huffington Post from time-to-time, it certainly can't be seen as anything else other than a pro-Democrat mouthpiece website. So, I presume the French website you talk about it is very much biased towards the socialists?
 

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,722
Interesting. Reading the Huffington Post from time-to-time, it certainly can't be seen as anything else other than a pro-Democrat mouthpiece website. So, I presume the French website you talk about it is very much biased towards the socialists?
Yes I think it probably is a bit. It's not that it's necessarily very partisan, but it tends to cover the same stuff as all the other sites now, and in much the same way. I would actually tend to vote PS myself, but as a devoted fan of the previous Le Post format, which was completely different, very eclectic, the new version just gets on my nerves.
 

True Republican

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
4,067
the irish papers are by and large anti intelectual rubbish as well as been conformist especially the irish indo and the sindo.
 

General Urko

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
15,767
They parrot the prevailing middle class narrative ad nauseum in the most class bound society in the Western world! Ironically given that, despite what they may fantasise the majority of people are working class or underclass so that narrative is largely irrelevant to them!
 

General Urko

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
15,767
Rugby is one of the great world games, but if you followed the Irish media you would think it was the national sport here, it is not!
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top