Are local authorities still selling houses at 60% discount?

galteeman

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Buying a local authority house or flat

From this link it looks like tenants can buy their houses out for huge discounts.
Is this crazy when the state may have to spend billions building more?
 


The Field Marshal

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That scheme came in about 20 years IINM.
I heard it was stopped but am not sure.
 

O'Quisling

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This is reminiscent of the "Affordable Housing Scheme" operated by the Housing Depts. of the Local Govts across the county (Dublin City, Fingal, So. Dublin, and DLR). It was very popular and there has been repeated calls for its re-introduction (or something similar). Introduced in the early Noughties after a lot of public pressure concerning the inability of Dublin citizens to buy property. The scheme was based on the idea that when a construction firm built a new estate, 1 in every 5 properties would be handed over to the relevant Municipal Housing Dept to be sold at cost price (as opposed to the bloated market price) to someone who fulfilled a set of criteria (i.e. earning under a certain amount - and therefore deemed too poor to buy off the market but yet be in steady employment). This scheme enabled a whole load off people to buy a home without commuting to work from Nobber or Newtown Mount Kennedy.

The scheme was one of the first casualties when the arse fell out of the Celtic Tiger economy.

What the people are still waiting for is the implementation of the James Kenny Report (no relation to Enda) from 1974, which identified ways to prevent the dominance of the housing sector by land speculators and property developers.

Maybe the Great New Liberator of Leo Varadkar could oversee the implementation of the James Kenny Report. I don't hold my breath.
 

stopdoingstuff

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What the people are still waiting for is the implementation of the James Kenny Report (no relation to Enda) from 1974, which identified ways to prevent the dominance of the housing sector by land speculators and property developers.
One of the most common sense proposals in the history of the State, and therefore will not happen.
 

HereWeGoAgain

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One of the most common sense proposals in the history of the State, and therefore will not happen.
Mick Clifford's Planning for the pay day in Examiner is worth a read re/ Kenny Report, etc

In 1971, the government commissioned a report to look into the method of rezoning land, with a particular view as to how it might be better achieved for the common good.
The Committee On The Price Of Building Land was chaired by a High Court judge, John Kenny. The committee reported in 1974. One of its major recommendations was that rezoned land should be valued at the agricultural price plus 25%. This, it was felt, would dampen down the frenzy for land speculation and lead to a greater incentive to proper planning.

As with multiple other reports down the years, the fate of Kenny rested on the political will to implement it. In 1974, a coalition government of Fine Gael and Labour was in situ, led by Fine Gael taoiseach Liam Cosgrave.

According to one account of what transpired at cabinet, the Kenny report was presented by the local government minister Jim Tully, who was a member of the minority coalition partner, Labour.

The finance minister, Richie Ryan, was reported as saying he opposed the implementation of Kenny. Cosgrave said he also was opposed to it. None of the other voices around the table made any serious case for implementing the report. Tully, who was effectively the report’s sponsor, didn’t advocate for its implementation. Noted socialists such as Labour leader Brendan Corish and Justin Keating remained silent. As did self-proclaimed social democrats like Conor Cruise O’Brien and Garret FitzGerald. In an interview with the Sunday Tribune in 2006, FitzGerald couldn’t put his finger on why Kenny wasn’t implemented.

“I’m still not clear in recollection as to why it wasn’t tackled when we were in,” he said. “I remember some discussion as to the arguments but I can’t recall the outcome.”

With no serious advocate for the report, it was shelved, effectively buried. With it died any prospect of reshaping the planning process in a progressive way. As long as rezoning had the potential to yield massive profits, then rezoning would remain the focus of the process for all the interested players, including the politicians.

It could well be that the cabinet didn’t realise the chance that was being offered by Kenny. Far more likely is that there simply wasn’t the stomach to take on powerful sectional interests such as landowners and developers.


Kenny Report (1973) – Four Decades On The Shelf

Terms of Reference:



Kenny Report (1973)

Planning for the pay day | Irish Examiner
 

Fr Peter McWhinger

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Usually renters whinge to have as many improvements made to the house before they buy it.

Local Authorities are also writing off massive amounts of debts.

Just 73% of Housing Loan Repayments are collected
Just 88% of rents are collected (on 160,000 social houses) Rent not being collected on 19,200 houses.
Just 82% of rates are collected.


see page 3 http://www.lgma.ie/sites/default/files/la_indicators_2015_infographic.pdf
These debts should be sold off to the private sector for collection.
 

Watcher2

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That scheme came in about 20 years IINM.
I heard it was stopped but am not sure.
I heard it again a good few months ago. If it was stopped, it started again. Maybe it as even a year ago they mentioned it on the radio. It's an appalling scheme in the context of the housing shortage. We should not be selling our social housing with 8000 homeless. Those not in need of social housing any longer should be given notice to vacate in accordance with legislative notice periods and the house given to someone more deserving. Many people are living in social housing for decades. Apparently it becomes a family home at some stage and ownership like rights attaching to them for the tenants. I've even heard of it being "handed down" to next generation. I'm not sure how true those stories are but it's believable in this silly country of ours.
 

Fr Peter McWhinger

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I heard it again a good few months ago. If it was stopped, it started again. Maybe it as even a year ago they mentioned it on the radio. It's an appalling scheme in the context of the housing shortage. We should not be selling our social housing with 8000 homeless. Those not in need of social housing any longer should be given notice to vacate in accordance with legislative notice periods and the house given to someone more deserving. Many people are living in social housing for decades. Apparently it becomes a family home at some stage and ownership like rights attaching to them for the tenants. I've even heard of it being "handed down" to next generation. I'm not sure how true those stories are but it's believable in this silly country of ours.
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,1997,en.pdf

Landlords need to throw out renters every few years.
 

PlanetBertie

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Well as a venture capitalist and a Nama Senior Bond holder I want the discount to be nearer 10% and I would also want to make sure I am the only bidder. It's only fair!
 

gleeful

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Mick Clifford's Planning for the pay day in Examiner is worth a read re/ Kenny Report, etc

In 1971, the government commissioned a report to look into the method of rezoning land, with a particular view as to how it might be better achieved for the common good.




Kenny Report (1973) – Four Decades On The Shelf

Terms of Reference:



Kenny Report (1973)

Planning for the pay day | Irish Examiner
The best option on zoning is for councils to only rezone land they own. That way the council makes profit on buying and rezoning land - and no one else does.
 

Fr Peter McWhinger

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The best option on zoning is for councils to only rezone land they own. That way the council makes profit on buying and rezoning land - and no one else does.
If zoning is so restricted that it makes building land much more valuable, than unzoned land( land on which you cannot build) then it raises fairness and constitutional issues.
 

gleeful

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If zoning is so restricted that it makes building land much more valuable, than unzoned land( land on which you cannot build) then it raises fairness and constitutional issues.
If someone is to profit from the actions of the state, it should be the tax payer. The logic of only rezoning tax-payer owned land is that it eliminates any incentive to corruption and provides a healthy revenue stream to the councils. It also puts development under democratic supervision.
 

Fr Peter McWhinger

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If someone is to profit from the actions of the state, it should be the tax payer. The logic of only rezoning tax-payer owned land is that it eliminates any incentive to corruption and provides a healthy revenue stream to the councils. It also puts development under democratic supervision.
Zoning is an act that restricts the use of land by those who own it. The more the supply of zoned land is restricted the more benefit accrues on the land that is zoned and to its owners and consequently the more detriment is suffered by those who hold unzoned land and by those who hope to buy or rent housing.

The State or its emanations should not be allowed to control or accrue zoned land to make it scarce and to cause its value to increase no more than it should be allowed to do so with Bread, Meat, Beer or any other commodity.
 
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Voluntary

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Zoning is an act that restricts the use of land by those who own it. The more the supply of zoned land is restricted the more benefit accrues on the land that is zoned and to tits owners and consequently the more detriment is suffered by those who hold unzoned land and by those who hope to buy or rent housing.

The State or its emanations should not be allowed to control or accrue zoned land to make it scarce and to cause its value to increase no more than it should be allowed to do so with Bread, Meat, Beer or any other commodity.
Zoning helps no one, but few land owners.
 

Fr Peter McWhinger

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O'Quisling

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If zoning is so restricted that it makes building land much more valuable, than unzoned land( land on which you cannot build) then it raises fairness and constitutional issues.
Zoning is an act that restricts the use of land by those who own it. The more the supply of zoned land is restricted the more benefit accrues on the land that is zoned and to its owners and consequently the more detriment is suffered by those who hold unzoned land and by those who hope to buy or rent housing.

The State or its emanations should not be allowed to control or accrue zoned land to make it scarce and to cause its value to increase no more than it should be allowed to do so with Bread, Meat, Beer or any other commodity.
You're forgetting about the County Development Plans.

The Planning Office in the County Council every 7 years designate areas (or Zones) for building new housing or industrial along with changes to infrastructure as is needed.

This craic of re-zoning occurs during the 7-year County Development Plan. It is reactive, not thought through and is usually carried out due to . . . .how do I put this . . . vested interests.
 

Fr Peter McWhinger

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You're forgetting about the County Development Plans.

The Planning Office in the County Council every 7 years designate areas (or Zones) for building new housing or industrial along with changes to infrastructure as is needed.

This craic of re-zoning occurs during the 7-year County Development Plan. It is reactive, not thought through and is usually carried out due to . . . .how do I put this . . . vested interests.

This process involves Gobsh1tes trying to forecast housing demand and zoning so much land with so much "headspace". Headspace being a notion of excess land supply over actual demand at an unknown price.
 


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