• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

Are people getting more stupid?


Telemachus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
6,565
Website
en.wikipedia.org
Researchers say Western IQs dropped 14 points over last century

A new study from researchers in Europe claims that the average IQ in Western nations dropped by a staggering 14.1 points over the past century.
"We tested the hypothesis that the Victorians were cleverer than modern populations using high-quality instruments, namely measures of simple visual reaction time in a meta-analytic study," the researchers wrote in the study, which was published online in the journal Intelligence on Thursday. "Simple reaction time measures correlate substantially with measures of general intelligence and are considered elementary measures of cognition."
A novel method I hadn’t heard of, IQ would typically be measured by standardised written testing.

The results were measured using data from 1889 to 2004 and were analyzed by Michael A. Woodley of Vrije Universiteit in Brussels, Jan te Nijenhuis of the University of Amsterdam and Raegan Murphy of the University College Cork in Ireland.

So why has there been such a steady drop? As UPI notes, previous research studies have found that women of higher intelligence tend to have fewer children on average, meaning that population growth may be driven by those with a lower IQ. And over time, the abundance of less intelligent offspring would affect the overall IQ average.
There are two parts to intelligence and brain development here, there is the gene set you are born with and then there is the nutritional/environmental part(eg breast feeding may increase a childs IQ by up to 3 points). Einsteins genius came in root from his genes, a stunted Einstein for example wouldn’t have been the same.

University of Ulster Professor Richard Lynn has a book called Dysgenics in which he makes the case that IQs are falling worldwide due to the lower fertility of the most intelligent in society. To paraphrase him quality matters more than quantity with human populations.

Study from Greece in the 1950s he quoted showing this

Socioeconomic level NMean IQNum Children
Professional41 117.2 1.78
Skilled workers80 100.9 2.66
Semiskilled27 91.0 4.00
Unskilled6782.2 5.56


I believe the same pattern plays out in Ireland, Traditionally in Ireland dysgenics had other causes, often a more gifted son/daughter was sent off to the priesthood or convent, this would over time result in a loss of genetic capital due to the vows of celibacy. Today it is the gifted female child getting her masters who has children late in life if at all or only one,. Many of us can see this pattern in our daily lives, the phenonemon of the less productive reproducing more and earlier than those more affluent or gifted say.

The welfare state both domestically and internationally(for what is food aid but international welfarism) is causing dysgenic trends in that the welfare class we have created are growing and then in low IQ countries populations are exploding - expanding dullard numbers immensely. We could take action here by taking tax measures against educated women who are childless and over 30 or restricting money to poorer families after the first child. What do people suggest can be done?

Flynn effect.
There is also a rise in IQ occurring that is assumed to be occurring due to better nuitrition, this has raised IQs by about 1 standard deviation in the 20th century(about the same as the average height increase over the same period). Lynn reckons the Flynn effect is hitting its ceiling – a given species simply has a given max capacity(you can only tune your engine so much).

Trends in the future like designer babies may help counteract the trend but may end up the preserve of the elite, the welfare class may cooperate however when they find out they could make their kid look more like David Beckham or the latest in vogue celebrity. But Sadly I think it is more likely people like the below wouldn't be to bothered, they wouldn't be bovvurred.



I would recommend people watch an informative documentary on this subject by Mike Judge called Idiocracy.

[video=youtube;icmRCixQrx8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8[/video]

Previous related thread here by a former Mod.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-social-affairs/117095-pay-low-quality-people-not-have-kids.html
 
Last edited:

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,597
Perhaps a polarisation of intelligence is more apt.
 

Northtipp

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
22,217
Of course they are. I present exhibit A. ( awaits picture in response) :)


The shinners were making slow steady progress in the poles...until factual jumped ship. Now dead in the water.

Mark my words...:lol:
And exhibit B:


The shinner shills certainly don't like being told some home truths on here! Read it and weep again, silly boy! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,557

Telemachus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
6,565
Website
en.wikipedia.org
Perhaps a polarisation of intelligence is more apt.
Attention spans are decreasing too. It took you only a minute to reply. Did ya even read the first paragraph ruserious? go on be honest.
 

Belodedici

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
785
Yeah, have you seen the latest poll results for FG and FF, only possible explanation for it.
 

between the bridges

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
45,651
Eh?
 

flavirostris

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
25,031
Just look at where Fianna Fail are in the latest Red C. Case closed
 

JCR

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
6,322
Well people used to, like, read books and stuff before, like, awwwesome.
 

Sister Mercedes

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
20,663
People have no attention span anymore. If you're at dinner with a group of people and tell a story, pretty soon they're fiddling with their Smartphones or talking to the person next to them. I've learned to heavily edit anecdotes that worked years ago.
 

A view from England

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
2,077
I have been recruiting Engineering Apprentices for 20 years. The standard of education has fallen year on year. General intelligence seems to be the same. The level of maturity of the average 16 year old has plummeted.
 

LDF

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
4,171
Probibly.
 

pragmaticapproach

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
8,817
Researchers say Western IQs dropped 14 points over last century



A novel method I hadn’t heard of, IQ would typically be measured by standardised written testing.



There are two parts to intelligence and brain development here, there is the gene set you are born with and then there is the nutritional/environmental part(eg breast feeding may increase a childs IQ by up to 3 points). Einsteins genius came in root from his genes, a stunted Einstein for example wouldn’t have been the same.

University of Ulster Professor Richard Lynn has a book called Dysgenics in which he makes the case that IQs are falling worldwide due to the lower fertility of the most intelligent in society. To paraphrase him quality matters more than quantity with human populations.

Study from Greece in the 1950s he quoted showing this

Socioeconomic level NMean IQNum Children
Professional41 117.2 1.78
Skilled workers80 100.9 2.66
Semiskilled27 91.0 4.00
Unskilled6782.2 5.56


I believe the same pattern plays out in Ireland, Traditionally in Ireland dysgenics had other causes, often a more gifted son/daughter was sent off to the priesthood or convent, this would over time result in a loss of genetic capital due to the vows of celibacy. Today it is the gifted female child getting her masters who has children late in life if at all or only one,. Many of us can see this pattern in our daily lives, the phenonemon of the less productive reproducing more and earlier than those more affluent or gifted say.

The welfare state both domestically and internationally(for what is food aid but international welfarism) is causing dysgenic trends in that the welfare class we have created are growing and then in low IQ countries populations are exploding - expanding dullard numbers immensely. We could take action here by taking tax measures against educated women who are childless and over 30 or restricting money to poorer families after the first child. What do people suggest can be done?

Flynn effect.
There is also a rise in IQ occurring that is assumed to be occurring due to better nuitrition, this has raised IQs by about 1 standard deviation in the 20th century(about the same as the average height increase over the same period). Lynn reckons the Flynn effect is hitting its ceiling – a given species simply has a given max capacity(you can only tune your engine so much).

Trends in the future like designer babies may help counteract the trend but may end up the preserve of the elite, the welfare class may cooperate however when they find out they could make their kid look more like David Beckham or the latest in vogue celebrity. But Sadly I think it is more likely people like the below wouldnt be to bothered, they wouldnt be bothered.



I would recommend people watch an informative documentary on this subject by Mike Judge called Idiocracy.

[video=youtube;icmRCixQrx8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8[/video]

Previous related thread here by a former Mod.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-social-affairs/117095-pay-low-quality-people-not-have-kids.html
I'll have to buy "dysgenics", I've read IQ and the wealth of nations a while back and found it interesting, although I'd question the accuracy of some of Lynns estimates. I agree with the general premise of the book.

One advantage the lower classes have over the middle is a higher value placed on traits associated with masculinity such as general "toughness", which is sorely lacking among the middle classes and upper classes. Modern society values the intellect over physical and mental toughness, traits which would have been seen as virtuous in past epochs, so perhaps the higher echelons of society are undergoing a dysgenic process of their own.

The days of the upper class military man are gone.
 
Last edited:

borntorum

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
12,805
Just look at where Fianna Fail are in the latest Red C. Case closed
26%, compared to 40%+ in the past.

So you are ascribing FF's relative long term decline to increased stupidity on the part of the electorate.
 

seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,327
I have been recruiting Engineering Apprentices for 20 years. The standard of education has fallen year on year. General intelligence seems to be the same. The level of maturity of the average 16 year old has plummeted.
Plenty of people do engineering degrees today, who would have done an apprenticeship 20 years ago.
 

Northtipp

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
22,217
Plenty of people do engineering degrees today, who would have done an apprenticeship 20 years ago.
I was at a conference recently where it was suggested by a very eminent member of Trinity staff that the way forward may be to go back to that approach , ie, apprenticeship type scenarios.
 
Top