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Are people getting more stupid?


Tea Party Patriot

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Yeh ihave to say I see the merits. As I said before I think it's seeing the issues on affordability to Universities
Where you are taking about practical professions I don't see the benefits of a university degree, combining practical work on the ground with approved professional bodies own exams would be just as productive.

It also creates the situation where you get a drop in standards of what is considered to be a post graduate degree or a masters in that additional study undertaken in relation to these professions are awarded this status regardless of the merits of doing so.

A lot of courses also become "bulked" out with a lot of unnecessary waffle subjects in order to justify having enough material for the course to call it a degree.
 

Telemachus

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This debate would be worth having if you were not quoting Richard Lynn of the Pioneer Fund.

I remember him when he had the run of Coleraine University. I also remember the protests against him.
:roll:
 

Tea Party Patriot

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I wouldnt put it so bluntly, but yes, if needs be.

who do you think would survive a major calamity which led to a mad max type scenario.

this group




or this group

Personally I would say group B (the nerds) because while a one on one physical confrontation may result in a victory for the first group militarily the group who would win out in the long run would be the one who could tactically plan for large confrontations, manage disease in their ranks, advance their military technology beyond mere anatomical physical strength, and organise supply lines to ensure their campaign was sustainable.
 

Half Nelson

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What does that say about the standard of education? When I sat my first degree I thought using A level Maths would be good enough. Wrong. I had to get extra tuition to support the degree course. Now you can pass a course with a hours training on a calculator.

This is my point. The standards of education are poor and the required attainment levels are low. The kids are bright enough but woefully immature and ill prepared.
Third level education is now a thriving business and to maintain or increase numbers it's necessary to dumb down many courses, with the result that those graduating are of a lower quality than previously.

A degree is now the starting point of a decent education.
 

Sotired

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Researchers say Western IQs dropped 14 points over last century



A novel method I hadn’t heard of, IQ would typically be measured by standardised written testing.



There are two parts to intelligence and brain development here, there is the gene set you are born with and then there is the nutritional/environmental part(eg breast feeding may increase a childs IQ by up to 3 points). Einsteins genius came in root from his genes, a stunted Einstein for example wouldn’t have been the same.

University of Ulster Professor Richard Lynn has a book called Dysgenics in which he makes the case that IQs are falling worldwide due to the lower fertility of the most intelligent in society. To paraphrase him quality matters more than quantity with human populations.

Study from Greece in the 1950s he quoted showing this

Socioeconomic level NMean IQNum Children
Professional41 117.2 1.78
Skilled workers80 100.9 2.66
Semiskilled27 91.0 4.00
Unskilled6782.2 5.56


I believe the same pattern plays out in Ireland, Traditionally in Ireland dysgenics had other causes, often a more gifted son/daughter was sent off to the priesthood or convent, this would over time result in a loss of genetic capital due to the vows of celibacy. Today it is the gifted female child getting her masters who has children late in life if at all or only one,. Many of us can see this pattern in our daily lives, the phenonemon of the less productive reproducing more and earlier than those more affluent or gifted say.

The welfare state both domestically and internationally(for what is food aid but international welfarism) is causing dysgenic trends in that the welfare class we have created are growing and then in low IQ countries populations are exploding - expanding dullard numbers immensely. We could take action here by taking tax measures against educated women who are childless and over 30 or restricting money to poorer families after the first child. What do people suggest can be done?

Flynn effect.
There is also a rise in IQ occurring that is assumed to be occurring due to better nuitrition, this has raised IQs by about 1 standard deviation in the 20th century(about the same as the average height increase over the same period). Lynn reckons the Flynn effect is hitting its ceiling – a given species simply has a given max capacity(you can only tune your engine so much).

Trends in the future like designer babies may help counteract the trend but may end up the preserve of the elite, the welfare class may cooperate however when they find out they could make their kid look more like David Beckham or the latest in vogue celebrity. But Sadly I think it is more likely people like the below wouldnt be to bothered, they wouldnt be bothered.



I would recommend people watch an informative documentary on this subject by Mike Judge called Idiocracy.

[video=youtube;icmRCixQrx8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8[/video]

Previous related thread here by a former Mod.
http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-social-affairs/117095-pay-low-quality-people-not-have-kids.html
Yes indeed they are.

Didn't think it was possible, but i'm man enough to acknowledge when i'm wrong.

More stupider by the day.

Just listen to the radio or watch the tele for the few minutes you can bear it.
 

Bea C

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About ten years ago I was discussing with a Cork person that incident where the building on Washington St collapsed. She said she was in the city centre at the time &thought it was a bomb. I said sher who'd bomb Cork: 'the IRA'.
Dazed, i asked - Nelson and Mountbatten aside - when did the IRA ever bomb in the Republic? 'What about the Dublin Monaghan bombings?' :?
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Third level education is now a thriving business and to maintain or increase numbers it's necessary to dumb down many courses, with the result that those graduating are of a lower quality than previously.

A degree is now the starting point of a decent education.
It certainly does not have the same economic value that it previously had due to the prevalence of graduates in the market place.
 

Northtipp

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Third level education is now a thriving business and to maintain or increase numbers it's necessary to dumb down many courses, with the result that those graduating are of a lower quality than previously.

A degree is now the starting point of a decent education.
That's so true. I can honestly say that in an employer situ that when we look at a qualification We look at the candidates age.
 

pragmaticapproach

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Personally I would say group B (the nerds) because while a one on one physical confrontation may result in a victory for the first group militarily the group who would win out in the long run would be the one who could tactically plan for large confrontations, manage disease in their ranks, advance their military technology beyond mere anatomical physical strength, and organise supply lines to ensure their campaign was sustainable.
All valid points, but all of what you mention may be negated by the second groups proneness towards pacifism, which may prevent them even surviving the early stages of such a scenario.

Also, with a greatly reduced population, the vast division of labour would not exist to develop the more advanced technology, no matter how intelligent they happened to be.
 
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A view from England

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Third level education is now a thriving business and to maintain or increase numbers it's necessary to dumb down many courses, with the result that those graduating are of a lower quality than previously.

A degree is now the starting point of a decent education.

It feels like that sometimes. The graduate Engineers I manage are not of the same calibre of ten years ago, never mind 20 years ago. Good at organising nights out. Not so good at determining the engineering requirements of chemical plant.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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People have no attention span anymore. If you're at dinner with a group of people and tell a story, pretty soon they're fiddling with their Smartphones or talking to the person next to them. I've learned to heavily edit anecdotes that worked years ago.
I have noticed that attention spans have got significantly shorter.

I now speak to Irish as I would have spoken to an American 20 years ago, so as to fit in with there shorter attention span. Swedes have even shorter attention spans.
 

Northtipp

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It feels like that sometimes. The graduate Engineers I manage are not of the same calibre of ten years ago, never mind 20 years ago. Good at organising nights out. Not so good at determining the engineering requirements of chemical plant.
If they are anything like I see they don't understand the concept of genuine hard work. Frequently I get that look that says " but I'm entitled."

Jaysus, i sound ancient.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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I'll have to buy "dysgenics", I've read IQ and the wealth of nations a while back and found it interesting, although I'd question the accuracy of some of Lynns estimates. I agree with the general premise of the book.

One advantage the lower classes have over the middle is a higher value placed on traits associated with masculinity such as general "toughness", which is sorely lacking among the middle classes and upper classes. Modern society values the intellect over physical and mental toughness, traits which would have been seen as virtuous in past epochs, so perhaps the higher echelons of society are undergoing a dysgenic process of their own.

The days of the upper class military man are gone.
Lynn has a reputation for massaging his facts.

Also I have met him. He is not exactly as bright as he likes to think he is.
 

Analyzer

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Television, and drugs both reduce brain performance.

In effect, they are making the segment of the population that relies heavily on both, steadily more stupid.
 

Telemachus

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It feels like that sometimes. The graduate Engineers I manage are not of the same calibre of ten years ago, never mind 20 years ago. Good at organising nights out. Not so good at determining the engineering requirements of chemical plant.
The leaving cert here has been dumbed down as well. Take a Maths paper from the early eighties and compare with today and it is clear. This is more a result of a society that hates elitism then the IQ factor I think. Making people fail is mean.

Students must find it hard to focus also with the electro-smog around them. When I was studying it was just the telly which was crap and boring, now its the more engaging facebook/twitter/youtube/online fora.
 
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