Are the Irish Govt. thinking straight at all?

GDPR

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At the moment Norway pays dues as if she was a full member, allows free movement of labor, accepts the rulings of the european court and has an arrangement which is, in all but name, customs union and free martket.
How can Barnier give more generous terms to the UK?
The Norwegians, who have been very quiet up to now, would be screaming blue murder!
They can't, which is the point.

Only one of 2 things can happen, either the UK refuses customs union, free market, free movement etc, in which case today's "agreement" of no border between RoI & NI and no border between NI & the rest of the UK can't happen or the UK does agree with the above, in which case we'd have got everything we wanted anyway without today's "agreement".

In other words today's "agreement" is completely meaningless either way.
 
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Alan Alda

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Dont worry , its a few years away.
Untill then , just bask in the glow of Leo and Simon and Simon.
Everything is just peachy.
 

wombat

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Will the big multi-nationals now relocate from the south to the north and take prosperity with them?
If NI has the best of both worlds why on earth would they give this up and enter a UI?
I think being in the eurozone is also an advantage. With luck, UK companies will locate branches in NI to take advantage of EU access. Basel in Switzerland has attracted a lot of German investment because of its location in Switzerland, across the river from Germany.
 

DJP

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JCR

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Its a bit ironic for me that Ireland seems to have managed to get better terms for the UK in Brexit than they were able to achieve for themselves.

If it were me I'd have tried to secure special terms for Ireland (ROI) with regard to tax policy and FDI strategy to mitigate against ROI being part of the island land mass shared with the the UK.

I know its a preliminary part of negotiations and there is a long way to go, I can't help thinking that the concessions required to maintain a "soft border" means other countries might take a look at leaving the EU as well.

The only solution that really suits everybody is making Brexit completely meaningless. Let them pull out of representation democratically, have no say at all in anything but if they want trade deals, make the terms such that they are still effectively part of the EU trade system by paying into it but just have no say is how it is run.

I don't think other countries would be so daft as to follow the UK down this route, but, then again. The cost for leaving has to be that, it needs to cost.
 

galteeman

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David McWilliams was on about this today on BBC radio NI BBC Radio Ulster - Talkback, 08/12/2017
Hard to know how it will pan out in the final deal but the Irish govt. don't seem to be aware that NI is actually a foreign country and many of the people there want to do us harm.
By all means strike a deal that makes NI more prosperous but only if said prosperity is predicated on an economic convergence with ROI.
They Irish govt. haven't shown any recognition of the dangers when it comes to the location of FDI that NI is actually a de-facto competitor that can steal our jobs and prosperity and could start doing so without the quid pro quo of a clear path to economic unity.
Amid all the spin they don't acknowledge that any final deal must not allow NI to be in a position of taking business from the ROI and the prospect of unity will be even farther away than now thanks to NI becoming wealthier at our expense.
The deal we see now is an awful fudge and the final outcome is hard to predict but I feel that allowing the extra statements to be added has put us in a dangerous position
 
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galteeman

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I think being in the eurozone is also an advantage. With luck, UK companies will locate branches in NI to take advantage of EU access. Basel in Switzerland has attracted a lot of German investment because of its location in Switzerland, across the river from Germany.
Doesn't it worry you that some companies might close their Dublin branch and move to Belfast if this doesn't pan out right for us?
 

wombat

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Doesn't it worry you that some companies might close their Dublin branch and move to Belfast if this doesn't pan out right for us?
No, its far more likely that a company will consolidate production in an existing plant on the continent. We have always lost new investment tomthe north - remember DeLorean? but I don't expect many to shut existing plants to move north.
 

Prester Jim

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Well done to the EU there and whichever of our DoFA diplomats, Coveney etc has a hand in it.
I worry though that the UK might still fudge this in later years and change their rules sufficiently that the EU insists on a border. It is completely apparent at this stage (if it wasn't before) that they will do whatever suits them and damn the consequences to Ireland, there are many in the Tory party who would feel it just and fair that Ireland be economically fncked for having the temerity to follow our own interests over theirs.
On a side note, it is remarkable how awful the coverage of these is in the Murdoch media, Telegraph and DM. They really are completely ignorant of Ireland and the troubles.
Kudos to the Guardian, New Statesman and others though for having as excellent grasp of Ireland motivations and history here. How can anyone expect the Tories to rule well if they are so utterly ignorant? The apotheosis of this is Trump of course but they're not too far behind.
 

Who is John Galt?

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I wonder what would have happened if we were today in a pre-1921 situation?
If the whole Island of Ireland had voted to remain, like Scotland, would England have still ignored its "subjects"?
 

wombat

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I wonder what would have happened if we were today in a pre-1921 situation?
If the whole Island of Ireland had voted to remain, like Scotland, would England have still ignored its "subjects"?
We were a colony pre 1921, our opinions did not count.
 

galteeman

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Well done to the EU there and whichever of our DoFA diplomats, Coveney etc has a hand in it.
I worry though that the UK might still fudge this in later years and change their rules sufficiently that the EU insists on a border. It is completely apparent at this stage (if it wasn't before) that they will do whatever suits them and damn the consequences to Ireland, there are many in the Tory party who would feel it just and fair that Ireland be economically fncked for having the temerity to follow our own interests over theirs.
On a side note, it is remarkable how awful the coverage of these is in the Murdoch media, Telegraph and DM. They really are completely ignorant of Ireland and the troubles.
Kudos to the Guardian, New Statesman and others though for having as excellent grasp of Ireland motivations and history here. How can anyone expect the Tories to rule well if they are so utterly ignorant? The apotheosis of this is Trump of course but they're not too far behind.
Funny no acknowledgement for the hated Leo eh, it's only the diplomats and Simon that done it? Are you still mad at him because he got 600 points in his leaving and you only got 340?
 

galteeman

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I wonder what would have happened if we were today in a pre-1921 situation?
If the whole Island of Ireland had voted to remain, like Scotland, would England have still ignored its "subjects"?
Well we had a large group of MPs and a fair percentage of the voters in any referendum.
 

Analyzer

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I wonder what would have happened if we were today in a pre-1921 situation?
If the whole Island of Ireland had voted to remain, like Scotland, would England have still ignored its "subjects"?
No.

In all likelihood the 26 counties minus the leafy suburbs would have voted to get out of the nEU empire.

Think back of the saturation propaganda on EU referenda with the media ( compromised) & the Brussels bloc parties being overwhemingly in favour of an ever closer kleptocracy.
 

Analyzer

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We were a colony pre 1921, our opinions did not count.
They do not count now either.

The Anglo Bondholder debacle tells us that.

Welcome to Empire 2.0.
 

tokkie

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I thought that the story was that the average English person was ignorant, and doesn't even know what NI is?

Make your mind up.
Show me a post of mine where I said the average English person was ignorant.
 

bmw1

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They do not count now either.

The Anglo Bondholder debacle tells us that.

Welcome to Empire 2.0.
take out the violin and play that lament one more time for ol time sake....
 

Ireniall

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No, its far more likely that a company will consolidate production in an existing plant on the continent. We have always lost new investment tomthe north - remember DeLorean? but I don't expect many to shut existing plants to move north.
DeLorean is a bad example. It went north only because the IDA didn't like the look of it. It was proposed for the old Ferenka plant in Limerick in Dessie O Malley's constituency and an unemployment black spot at the time. As the Minister for Industry and Commerce O Malley could have ignored the IDA's concerns but chose not to. That is the difference between a proper leader and the shuffling sleeveens who often worm their way into positions of responsibility-most notably Haughey and his band of thieves who dominated FF for so long and of course the biggest thief of all Michael Lowry. De Lorean duly went north and turned out to be a disaster in the long run.
 


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