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Are ticket touts and half empty stadiums and theatres market failures?


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Dylan2010

Anyone who has gone to a conert, theather show, very popular sports event or one not so will either have a ticket thats worth more than they paid for it or will attend events will possibly have lots of empty seats. In an age when we have seen airline deal with the "empty seat" problem quite well, theatres dont seem to have moved on. Given the technology is it not possibe to simply reverse action all tickets to ensure all seats are always sold? the ticket tout will then not be needed and more people will get to see more events at a price they are willing to pay.
A while back I took the family to the Grand canal theatre and they switched our tickets to close the upper levels as it was only half full. why not as London have done have discouted ticket sales on the day in booths around the city or simply online?
On the flip side reverse aution 6 nations tickets and let the guy who want to pay 200€ for a ticket do so?




An example of people impsing "wrong" prices

BBC - Newsbeat - Festival boss criticises government over ticket resales


A top UK festival boss says he's "disappointed" that the government isn't taking action over the resale of tickets for live music events, like it has for the London Olympics.

Reselling tickets for London 2012 outside of authorised resellers is illegal.

Melvin Benn said the decision not to regulate the resale market for music had "left the problem with us".

The government says it has no intention of regulating the websites.

'Touting problem'

Melvin Benn, who organises events such as the Reading and Leeds and Latitude festivals, told Newsbeat: "I do feel it's one rule for one thing and one rule for another.

"The Olympics did it the easy way. The just wrote a law and passed it. They've got that mechanic at hand to them.
 


controller

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Feb 25, 2009
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Tickets touts will share a place in hell with Thatcher
 
D

Dylan2010

Tickets touts will share a place in hell with Thatcher
but its the fault in that case of selling off the tickets too cheaply, the money would be better off going back to the event organiser and maybe allow cheaper tickets for other events? And again the flip side, if I want to go to say an Ireland soccer game with the kids but its only "worth" €10 to me, why do they not try to facilitate me when the alternative in an empty seat? I might even spend more on food etc.
 

ibis

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12,359
but its the fault in that case of selling off the tickets too cheaply, the money would be better off going back to the event organiser and maybe allow cheaper tickets for other events? And again the flip side, if I want to go to say an Ireland soccer game with the kids but its only "worth" €10 to me, why do they not try to facilitate me when the alternative in an empty seat? I might even spend more on food etc.
It looks as if it will probably come your way before too long: Sports ticketing: The price is right | The Economist
 
D

Dylan2010

It looks as if it will probably come your way before too long: Sports ticketing: The price is right | The Economist
thats great, exactly what I thought ought to be happening more

As a result, just three years after the San Francisco Giants became the first MLB team to offer seats with no set face value, over half the game's clubs are using dynamic pricing. According to Mr Kahn, the impact on teams' bottom lines has been substantial. By adjusting the price of a given seat by as much as five or six times over, they have been able to raise full-price attendance by 15% and total ticket revenue by 30%.
 

redneck

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Personally I think the GAA should try and remodel Croke park. turn it into a 50,000 seater stadium along the lines of the Olympic stadium in the UK. How to do this? I am not an Engineer. but maybe they could have a competition to remodel it.
 

james toney

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Remember this from Channel 4 Dispatches series last year, Viagogo a company similar to ticketmaster,tried to stop the programme going on air.The high court ruled in favour of Channel 4.
The programme revealed lots of unsavoury practices from the ticket sellers.
Among them were,“The majority of tickets offered for sale through viagogo are not from individual fans but from large scale professional ticket resellers or tickets allocated by promoters to viagogo.
viagogo staff compete directly with real fans to buy tickets from primary ticket sellers, like Ticketmaster, for in demand events as soon as they go on sale. To get around systems put in place to prevent bulk buying of tickets, viagogo staff use multiple credit cards registered to different addresses.

Viagogo Fails to Stop 'The Great Ticket Scandal'

[video=youtube;WWlnL8drSdw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWlnL8drSdw[/video]
 

Howya

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The airlines have been using flexible pricing for decades, hotels have followed more recently. So, yes theatres and stadiums should use the same model. Not sure that it will remove the ticket tout (unless you match tickets to ID on entry, which is not feasible in somewhere like Croke Park).
 

Northsideman

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Personally I think the GAA should try and remodel Croke park. turn it into a 50,000 seater stadium along the lines of the Olympic stadium in the UK. How to do this? I am not an Engineer. but maybe they could have a competition to remodel it.
Absolutely no need to do this, the lower decks are sold first and when the numbers do not require it the upper decks are closed.

The massive error made was ever building that horrible kip that is the Aviva, if heads were knocked together there would have been no need for it and Croker could have been utilised to the max and the GAA, FAI and IRFU would be all be far wealthier organisations. It was a big bugle for Delaney and the IRFU no more no less.
 

Dadaist

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Myself and a friend wanted to go to the 2011 final of the Celtic Cup (football) between Ireland and Scotland in the stadium in D4. We didn't have tickets, so we strolled down and queued up at one of the Ticketmaster booths. The standard tickets were going for €30. We thought it was a bit steep for a nothing match but decided to treat ourselves. Then the word came back down the queue that all the €30 tickets were gone and there were only the so called premium tickets left, at €50 a ticket. That was that, there was no chance we were paying €50. A guy behind us with two kids was incensed. He was raging that he would have to pay €150 for three tickets. He took himself and the kids out of the queue and went home. The Ticketmaster rep said that all the standard tickets were sold and that they were authorised to sell the premium tickets at the full price only (there is little or no difference between the premium and standard seats). So our competent friends in the FAI were responsible for the pricing structure.

In the end the attendance was around 6,000. That's 44,000 empty seats and they were refusing to sell tickets to people who were willing to pay €30. There was a large crowd outside the ground and a lot of people were still looking for tickets right at kick off.

Absolute madness.
 

Dimples 77

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but its the fault in that case of selling off the tickets too cheaply, the money would be better off going back to the event organiser and maybe allow cheaper tickets for other events? And again the flip side, if I want to go to say an Ireland soccer game with the kids but its only "worth" €10 to me, why do they not try to facilitate me when the alternative in an empty seat? I might even spend more on food etc.

The thing is though that some consider it an obligation to offer tickets to events at prices so that ordinary fans have at least a chance of getting tickets at reasonable prices. For many big name events rich people and corporations will always be able to outbid ordinary fans, so setting defined reasonable prices is the only way to give ordinary fans a chance.

I'd much rather have a situation where I have a chance to buy tickets at a reasonable price than a situation where all tickets are sold at high 'equivalent to tout' prices. Even if some of those reasonably priced tickets end up with touts. The rich people will still be able to buy from the touts, but at least not all of the tickets will have started at those tout prices.

As for less popular events then of course organisers should be free to vary their prices to try to get a capacity crowd. Some actually do that. I've gone to the box office at theatres in a number of international cities and been able to get a ticket for much less than face value simply by asking. It's all about supply and demand. For less popular events touts are going to be less interetsed in trying to buy up tickets as they may not be able to move them.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Offering seats with no or a flexible face value could be interesting. I wonder what would happen in the LOI ?
 

Dimples 77

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Myself and a friend wanted to go to the 2011 final of the Celtic Cup (football) between Ireland and Scotland in the stadium in D4. We didn't have tickets, so we strolled down and queued up at one of the Ticketmaster booths. The standard tickets were going for €30. We thought it was a bit steep for a nothing match but decided to treat ourselves. Then the word came back down the queue that all the €30 tickets were gone and there were only the so called premium tickets left, at €50 a ticket. That was that, there was no chance we were paying €50. A guy behind us with two kids was incensed. He was raging that he would have to pay €150 for three tickets. He took himself and the kids out of the queue and went home. The Ticketmaster rep said that all the standard tickets were sold and that they were authorised to sell the premium tickets at the full price only (there is little or no difference between the premium and standard seats). So our competent friends in the FAI were responsible for the pricing structure.

In the end the attendance was around 6,000. That's 44,000 empty seats and they were refusing to sell tickets to people who were willing to pay €30. There was a large crowd outside the ground and a lot of people were still looking for tickets right at kick off.

Absolute madness.


That is complete madness.

It isn't as if the FAI was trying to avoid setting a precedent for big name games, where tickets would be in demand and so full price could be charged, and no discounts considered. This wasn't a big name game.

You'd have thought that the FAI would have been flexible about that situation. Think of the goodwill that would have been generated if they'd parted with those €50 tickets for €30. And the increased revenue.

Zero skulls at €50 = €0.

1,000 skulls at €30 = €30,000.

It's not hard to work out.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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These guys have interesting ideas:
http://www.qcue.com/
The San Francisco Giants are among a growing number of sports teams that have learned from the airline industry and now continuously raise and lower ticket prices as demand ebbs and flows, Giants CIO Bill Schlough told CIO Journal at the Sports and Entertainment Alliance in Technology conference in Boston.

For the past three years the team has used data on the popularity of opposing teams, and prices from online secondary ticket markets, to calculate the price for 20 different seating areas, according to Schlough. He said prices or seats in those areas rise and fall, based on the data.
 

rockofcashel

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touts can also be handy.. a few of us used to go to England every year to play golf and see a Premiership game (well really to have a once a year p**s up), but booking through scheduled tours was ridiculous.. so we did all the booking seperately ourselves.. Ryanair, cheap hotel.. and picked the tickets up off a tout at 20/30 quid over the odds.. but making an overall saving of about 100 quid
 

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