Are we better, worse or just the same after the Frances Fitzgerald "resigning"

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,783
So the dust is settling in Leinster House and the orders for election posters are being cancelled, but is democracy any better or worse now after an opposition groundswell that forced the "resignation" of a senior government figure.

Motions of No Confidence are important tools in our parliamentary democracy and IMHO they occur far too infrequently.

Even when they do - like in the case of Willie O'Dea's less than accurate affidavit - they can be soul destroying when politicians have to line out with effectively perjurers.

How do people feel the last week will impact our democracy in the long run:

A - not at all

B - a good start, make politicians more accountable

C - it'll just make politicians more wary and just better at keeping a lid on things?
 


Niall996

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
11,823
All a big pile of nothingness. Its about time Irish politicians got heated about issues that actually matter. The public will remember this scam.
 

ionsniffer

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
7,162
political theatre. a non story.
fine gael are probably glad of it to distract people from the real issues and the fact that they are a pack of scrote cowards.
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
45,623
B.

Much better..she was useless.

The past week proved it. The media hid it for years.
 

asset test

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
14,593
Did she/will she get a nomination at the election convention.

I reckon she will top the poll. :p
 

JCR

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
6,241
C. is the most obvious one isn't it. Leo and Mick spent a day talking about how to do this.

Personally I think this possibly marks a descent into Northern type politics, rowing and egos and guess what - nothing getting done.
 

caledhel

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
2,192
Cuir Micheál smacht ar Leo. Sin é an scéal. Paschal, cá bhfuil tú?
 

HarshBuzz

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
11,815
Until you change the underlying systems and culture, changing some of the lead actors makes no difference whatsoever. It's treating the symptom, not the disease.

And the unions will block any attempt at meaningful change so there ya go...
 

OrderoftheDragon

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
1,927
It's very simple, someone had to get a bloody nose and varadker's inexperience let him down Micky Martin won this round.

Leo could have took a dive early on or headed for the corner, but inexperience made him come out swinging and he got levelled. Hopefully he learns a lesson from this one.......
 

Shpake

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,282
I certainly hope that things have got better
The news bulletins were one cacophony of opposing bursts of outrage along the lines of:
i) We can't sack a good and loyal woman who refused to intervene in a process that was better dealt with in the hands of the competent authority and was beyond her remit
ii) How can we tolerate the Tánaiste's non-intervention once she learned of an internal conspiracy to not only discredit, but to ruin the character of an honest man who was acting as a whistle-blower.
iii) How can we put the economic survival of the State in jeopardy by wasting time on this distraction?
iv) Who knew what when?


Well the winners at this point in time are
Maurice McCabe, Allen Kelly (labour), FF and Micheál Martin.
The losers are : Francis -- and good riddance, Leo and the Fine gaelers, the dept of Justice big-time.
Hopefully when Leo picks himself up and brushes off the dust he can get back and concentrate his efforts on the Brexit matter... and can forgive and forget his personality spat with Mícheál Martin.

I venture to guess that there is one hell of a commotion going on in the dept of Justice (and in government) to try and find out who was Allen Kelly's mole in the department.


Deep breath.

What do I plug for? Put me down for a "B"
"a good start, make politicians more accountable"

but change it to "a good start, make the politicians realize the gargantuan task of cleaning out the mountain of shyte from Augean stables which make up institutional Ireland.

I'm still dumbstruck and the scores or hundreds of conflicting messages in the last five days alone.
"The woman dedicated her life to furthering female equality int he workplace."
"There was a plot within the department of justice to ruin Maurice McCabe."

Even now there has been no admission of wrongdoing, or of withhodling information or of telling things that were untrue.
Even her resignation on RTE news seems to have been clothed in the words.
"she resigned for the good of the country"
Is she adopting the role of martyrdom like... are is she being nailed to a cross?
Does anyone else not think like me in wanting to know was she really guilty of condoning the obstruction of the course of justice -- albeit by non-intervention.
Who was guilty? Who will get off scot free or with a slap on the wrist?

Are the bookies taking on bets that the commision will be postponed, reconvened, disbanded or otherwise delayed so that the insects have time to scuther off into the crevices and corners?
 

The Rahenyite

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
903
We're the same. Just delaying a general election for a better time weather wise, implementation of the finance bill and regarding Brexit talks too.
 

Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,783
Until you change the underlying systems and culture, changing some of the lead actors makes no difference whatsoever. It's treating the symptom, not the disease.

And the unions will block any attempt at meaningful change so there ya go...
This was a change, though, it was the first time I recall a MNC, or in this case the threat of one, actually remove what most people believe to be an incompetent and/or lazy and/or corrupted minister.

Forget Frances Fitzgerald for a moment - this was a "process" that we don't use often enough (IMHO), but that should be seen as a mid-ter, performance management assessment and not an election issue.

If ministers are more accountable then maybe they'll start to find more effective ways to work with or around the unions...I know in one LA where the influence of the unions has been hugely diminished by good open performance management, so it is possible.
 

midlander12

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,898
Up to today, I assumed we were looking at an election in early spring. However, I heard both Calleary and Billy Kelleher on the radio today sounding quite dovish about the prospect of pursuing Flanagan, and then there's the fact that Martin knew about the other emails since Saturday. It's almost like they had just wanted to settle the whole thing quietly until the media and FG backbenches went bananas yesterday.

I still think something else will happen to bring the pack of cards tumbling down, and of course there's the Charleton tribunal hearings in the New Year, but I think the chances of getting past Jan/Feb are slightly higher than they were yesterday.
 

Burnout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
7,153
Twitter
I have a life.
Until you change the underlying systems and culture, changing some of the lead actors makes no difference whatsoever. It's treating the symptom, not the disease.

And the unions will block any attempt at meaningful change so there ya go...
And therin lies the nub of the problem...the culture of people in the same departments for years building walls to suit themselves. They should be switched around and moved and made update their skills and not have inhouse appraisals by their own friends. Many in high office really believe they are untouchable. Wonder has Leo the balls to start a DoJ sweep out.

Because unless those at the top who waffle about change actually do something about it, nothing changes. When you see the childish carry on of Flanagan v Alan Kelly you know the mentality is limited. Not good for the rest of us. It will be very hard for anyone to believe anything any of them say from now on. Late Debate time. Night.
 

HarshBuzz

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
11,815
This was a change, though, it was the first time I recall a MNC, or in this case the threat of one, actually remove what most people believe to be an incompetent and/or lazy and/or corrupted minister.

Forget Frances Fitzgerald for a moment - this was a "process" that we don't use often enough (IMHO), but that should be seen as a mid-ter, performance management assessment and not an election issue.

If ministers are more accountable then maybe they'll start to find more effective ways to work with or around the unions...I know in one LA where the influence of the unions has been hugely diminished by good open performance management, so it is possible.
Fitzgerald knew about something extremely dodgy and did nothing about it. Then lied about it. In fairness to our systems, the truth was swiftly uncovered and her position became indefensible. Leo got into an ill-advised dick-measuring contest with Mehole (now there's an image).
Let's call that some form of accountability.

FF caused a massive economic depression, cost us our sovereignty for years and saddled us with debts that will hand around the necks of our grandchildren.
All the ministers involved are on six-figure pensions for life and one of them is being mooted as our next Taoiseach.
Accountability me arse.

Don't be fooled by this last week. Someone was taken down by stupidity and hubris. Nothing has changed under the surface.
 

The Field Marshal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
43,645
On a personal level I think it,s quite disgusting.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top