Are we better, worse or just the same after the Frances Fitzgerald "resigning"

mangaire2

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Are we better, worse or just the same after the Frances Fitzgerald "resigning

in a word -

BETTER.
 


venusian

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All a big pile of nothingness. Its about time Irish politicians got heated about issues that actually matter. The public will remember this scam.
The attempted destruction of McCabe by political and AGS reprobates will not be forgotten. Excellent to see Vardkars disgusting support for O'Sullivan and Fitzgerald blow up in his face. It will pave the way for Coveney to stab him in the back sooner than later.
 

venusian

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Fine Gael are fatally wounded, especially under varadkar because of the resignation.
Fine Gael are fatally wounded, especially under Varadkar because of the exposure of his lack of moral judgement and ethical probity. He continued to give O'Sullivan his most fulsome support until she scarpered. He is still supporting Fitzgerald despite all of the revelations of a government smear campaign why would he do that unless he was up to his neck in it. FG are rotten to the core
 

tipofdiceberg

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Are we better, worse or just the same after the Frances Fitzgerald "resigning

in a word -

BETTER.
Leo has made it worse by accepting the resignation yet he disagrees with it, The man is a disaster,
He supports Fitzgerald one minute yet feels sorry for the McCabe family the next.
He will listen to the 5m Troll Factory and change according to their recomendations. The man is a fake.
 
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wombat

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All a big pile of nothingness. Its about time Irish politicians got heated about issues that actually matter. The public will remember this scam.
It will fade like the snow we never had. It was a political/media fuss about nothing. Even the real scandal, the conspiracy against McCabe was sidelined in the feeding frenzy.
 

Apple in Eden

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As long as people keep voting for FFG this will continue.
They seem set to do just this yet again in large numbers in the next election whenever it happens. I think most people are so self absorbed these days that they rarely if ever engage with matters political unless there is an earthquake. They are effectively programmed for conditioning and indoctrination rather than reflective analysis. I suppose they would argue that they would rather post meaningless nonsense on Facebook than talk ************************e on here.
 

LISTOWEL MAN

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2017

Martin McGuinness dead and gone forever

Charles Manson dead and gone forever

but we lost Frances Fitzgerald :(
 

Burnout

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I have a life.
That's a great idea.

Now go into the CS tomorrow and try to implement it. The unions will immediately declare Defcon Three.
Are we saying the unions are running things, surely staff can be moved from dept to dept as is required. The whole thing about leadership is too identify problems and act on them, not look for obstacles. Get it done or leave it to those who can do....just stop waffling about it.
 

Burnout

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I have a life.
Leo has made it worse by accepting the resignation yet he disagrees with it, The man is a disaster,
He supports Fitzgerald one minute yet feels sorry for the McCabe family the next.
He will listen to the 5m Troll Factory and change according to their recomendations. The man is a fake.
5€ million in spin and the gombeens are so incompetent they still cannot get it right. Thick neck and arrogance is all they need.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I'm quite interested in some other secondments. Such as Marion Mannion who appears to be on secondment from Tusla for some 6 or 7 years as a special advisor on a salary in excess of 90k per annum.

I'm not sure that an employee of Tusla should be a special advisor to a Minister. She's either a public/civil servant or she's not.

Given the nasty little sequence of events around a Tusla file with erroneous and actionable information incorrectly inserted and then circulated in senior civil service circles I'd be inclined to take a closer look at such secondments.
 

LooseCannon

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All the top heads at the Department should roll

Leo is right that it is dysfunctional (as are so many government departments)

The McCabe disaster would likely have happened whoever was in government if they followed the civil servants advice
 

bokuden

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They seem set to do just this yet again in large numbers in the next election whenever it happens. I think most people are so self absorbed these days that they rarely if ever engage with matters political unless there is an earthquake. They are effectively programmed for conditioning and indoctrination rather than reflective analysis. I suppose they would argue that they would rather post meaningless nonsense on Facebook than talk ************************e on here.
Ultimately, it's down to individuals, but the media are majorly culpable. They actually did a reasonable job on the Fitzgerald e mail affair.
 

Jim Car

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The McCabe disaster would likely have happened whoever was in government if they followed the civil servants advice
They need to open the top civil servant position up, start hiring people from outside. It does not need to be done across the board but when necessary and when it is obvious that the CS culture is getting in the way. There also need to be a willingness to simply sack and if necessary sack in mass those who are responsible for these mistakes or who are resistant to reform. Its very difficult to keep am organisation together with the same people who have lead and directed for years and then all of a sudden expect them to change their attitudes at the behest of a minister who may or may not be there in the next 2-5 years. Shake ups are good and a necessity in all organisation even the ones that are preforming well.
 

Travis Bickle

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She'll get a fat pension, Leo will be too busy *wink* with Brexit etc. to follow through on getting the DoJ sorted, FF content to have ruffled feathers. That's our top two parties folks.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Well one thing that really needs to be stopped in its tracks is this caper of benchmarking civil servants and public servants to senior managers in the private sector.

I'm well aware of the habit of hiring consultancies where there is some sleight of hand in a long boring report where selected comparisons are made to industry positions with higher pay but much less security in order to inflate pay.

Funny how the CS and PS never want to be benchmarked to industry senior managers when it comes to job security. Or private sector disciplinary procedures.

I had a look at a long benchmarking report by a couple of consultants the other day and it was such an example of how to deliberately skew stats that it was a joke. They managed to exclude all directly comparable positions in other sectors and of course then ended up suggesting obliquely that the subjects should be compared to people with more responsibility and line management duty.

That fraud has to stop.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
They need to open the top civil servant position up, start hiring people from outside. It does not need to be done across the board but when necessary and when it is obvious that the CS culture is getting in the way. There also need to be a willingness to simply sack and if necessary sack in mass those who are responsible for these mistakes or who are resistant to reform. Its very difficult to keep am organisation together with the same people who have lead and directed for years and then all of a sudden expect them to change their attitudes at the behest of a minister who may or may not be there in the next 2-5 years. Shake ups are good and a necessity in all organisation even the ones that are preforming well.
Civil servants are pretty much unsackable. I had a taste of this with a complete nutter at one role which was in a public institution and took much of its practice and union protection from the civil service. The guy was in his probation period so wasn't even fully appointed and it still took six months of steadily writing up non-performance, bizarre behaviours and even then he got the union involved and even though the union rep knew the guy was nuts we still have to have weekly meetings with the chap with a HR witness and ended up still at HQ with the head of the institution hearing an appeal.

To give you an idea how nuts the guy was at the end of all this process and steadily missing even easy objectives at the last meeting before curtains he suddenly asked out of the blue how he was doing in his probation- which caused even a veteran HR bod's jaw to drop.

And this was someone in a probationary period who managed to stretch even the probation out for something like a year before he ran out of performance road. I have a lower drawer of a desk filled with lever arch files still documenting everything. Including his bizarre emailing of heads of institutions in New York and the UK announcing he'd found a radical new way of doing everything that would save oceans of time- and this while he was three months behind in his own simple objectives.

I still think I'd have been stuck with him if he had somehow passed probation out of sympathy somewhere.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I only recall one civil servant being sacked in years of observing Irish news and that was a garda who was completely nuts and that took years before they could get rid of him.

I recall the female Garda who was involved in an unprovoked attack on a member of the public causing GBH who was convicted of the assault a couple of years back and her only comment post-conviction was that she 'wanted to put it behind her and get back to work'.

I don't know whether she went back to work or not as a Garda. I'm half afraid to check in case she did.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Secondments should be limited in time and certainly not stretch to best part of a decade. And I'm not sure that public servants should be seconded as SPADs to Ministers. It could be interpreted in some cases as breaching the 'independence' of the public and civil service from political appointments (ie personal advisers to elected Ministers which could bring them into conflict with their 'home' department).
 

neveragain

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I'm moderately optimistic.

It's like water wearing down stone: the progress is too slow to be visible, but it's there all the same.
But this is not just any old stone, it's granite.

The sun will fall from the sky before that stuff is turned into sand.

No optimisim here I'm sorry to say.
 


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