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Arguments against raising the Mininum Wage to the Living Wage

ruserious

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I can't think of any arguments to be honest.


A living wage is defined as a wage that is high enough to maintain a normal standard of living. Right now the the minimum wage is €9.15 and the living wage is €11.50.

Why anyone thinks it is fine to pay a wage that doesn't allow one to have a "normal standard of living" is beyond me. In fact, it ventures a fine line between servitude and employment.

Higher wages has time and again been proven to directly stimulate the economy so business may actually increase turnover if they pay a living wage.

Lidl and Aldi are both signed up to a living wage. Fair play to them. They recognise that it is their staff that contributes to the success of their business.

Can any of you put up an argument against the living wage being the minimum wage?
 


Carlos Danger

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Simple: Inflationary tactics by the providers of goods and services.
 

off with their heads

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its a moot point considering the Irish state is providing free slave workers to for profit companies
 

ruserious

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its a moot point considering the Irish state is providing free slave workers to for profit companies
I think that if JobBridge was run properly and it was solely on the interests of the internee, then it has potential to be a good idea but it has been totally abused by business to have cheap labour.
 

Carlos Danger

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However the State ultimately controls the minimum wage so could override the motivations of these providers.
How? If I'm an employer, and I must increase payroll by over 25% without increasing production or output or provision, then the only options available to me are:

Increase prices.
Decrease staff.
Close the doors.
 

ruserious

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How? If I'm an employer, and I must increase payroll by over 25% without increasing production or output or provision, then the only options available to me are:

Increase prices.
Decrease staff.
Close the doors.
Only if you wish to maintain the level of profitability. How many times do we see very profitable US companies moving to Mexico to further increase the profit line. Sometimes, you have to consider that your employees are also your customer base. Do we want an economy or a society?
 

wombat

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Minimum wages effect low skill workers. There are jobs which are marginally useful such as casual bar work for students at weekends. These jobs vanish when minimum wages are increased, for some, that's good, for others its bad, the answer for the individual is to gain skills for which people will pay good wages.
 

hmmm

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Sure I can think of an argument - how is an unskilled kid who is looking to get started somewhere going to get a job, if the employer can't afford to hire someone and train them up? Raising the minimum wage is condemning a generation to unemployment.

A minimum wage job isn't a job for life - it's something to do while you work towards getting a better job.
 

Voluntary

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I can't think of any arguments to be honest.


A living wage is defined as a wage that is high enough to maintain a normal standard of living. Right now the the minimum wage is €9.15 and the living wage is €11.50.

Why anyone thinks it is fine to pay a wage that doesn't allow one to have a "normal standard of living" is beyond me. In fact, it ventures a fine line between servitude and employment.

Higher wages has time and again been proven to directly stimulate the economy so business may actually increase turnover if they pay a living wage.

Lidl and Aldi are both signed up to a living wage. Fair play to them. They recognise that it is their staff that contributes to the success of their business.

Can any of you put up an argument against the living wage being the minimum wage?
To fix the pay system properly you'd better remove all the pay subsidies - ALL OF THEM, so no SW help to workers. At the current state many people wouldn't be able to afford the living, so would need to relocate to cheaper locations. This would cause lack of employees willing to work for the X amount of money, forcing employers to pay more - some low pay people would come back - after many years balance would be found without even having a need for a set minimum wage.
 

ruserious

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Sure I can think of an argument - how is an unskilled kid who is looking to get started somewhere going to get a job, if the employer can't afford to hire someone and train them up? Raising the minimum wage is condemning a generation to unemployment.

A minimum wage job isn't a job for life - it's something to do while you work towards getting a better job.
Perhaps you would need obvious controls in place such as only being entitled to the living wage if over 21 or working two years etc.

There are a lot of people earning around €10 an hour. Not just kids neither.
 

Carlos Danger

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Only if you wish to maintain the level of profitability. How many times do we see very profitable US companies moving to Mexico to further increase the profit line. Sometimes, you have to consider that your employees are also your customer base. Do we want an economy or a society?
Giant corporations are what you're talking about. They and their capital and operations are mobile. They don't have many societal concerns apart for increasing shareholder value.

What about SMEs for whom an increase in payroll of 25% would be devastating?
 

niall78

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Sure I can think of an argument - how is an unskilled kid who is looking to get started somewhere going to get a job, if the employer can't afford to hire someone and train them up? Raising the minimum wage is condemning a generation to unemployment.

A minimum wage job isn't a job for life - it's something to do while you work towards getting a better job.
If an employer can't afford to train up new staff it means their business is very close to failure if not past that point. The unskilled kid would be better getting a start with a company that can maintain the basic services it needs to survive without going into the red.

A minimum wage job is for life for a lot of people unfortunately. Do you imagine everyone working minimum wage today will be in far better paying work in ten years time?
 

SPN

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A living wage is defined as a wage that is high enough to maintain a normal standard of living. Right now the the minimum wage is €9.15 and the living wage is €11.50.
What exactly is "a normal standard of living"?
 

Carlos Danger

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If they can't pay a decent living wage that is enough to live on properly what use exactly are these SMEs to our society?
Starting an individual out in their working life performing menial tasks in a minimum wage job training them up and giving them a platform from which to better themselves.
 

Congalltee

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Nov 10, 2009
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Watch what happens if the minimum wage increased by 25%.
You tell me.
20% of workers getting a 20% pay rise, will increase cost of supply and amount of demand. But would it be too big to absorb over 3 financial years? Starting at a very low base rate of inflation? (Say compared to the Bertie era of salary inflation in the public sector and those milking on the teat of the State).
 

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