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Arthur Spring to be selected without a convention for North Kerry/West Limerick?


kerrynorth

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A rumour has reached the ears of my good self that the Labour Party HQ intend to select Arthur Spring Jnr as the Labour candidate for the next GE without going through a selection convention. Is this allowed for in Labour Party rules? I realise that election committees in most party's have the power to 'add on' a candidate to those selected at convention. I know of course that FF did this for the locals with broadly disastrous results. But for a GE in a constituency where Labour have a number local Cllrs and a branch network I would have thought a formal selection convention, even if it is unlikely to be a contest, would at least act as a promotional opportunity for the party and canddiate.
 


Bobert

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Is there any competition for him to get the nomination?
 

flavirostris

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Does this mean Terry O'Brien is being shafted
 

kerrynorth

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Does this mean Terry O'Brien is being shafted
Not really. To my knowledge he had expressed a desire not to contest a GE again after his 2007 experience plus he has had serious health issues to deal with of late and is really in no position to contest an election.
 

Reality bites

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The rumour is probably due to confusion about the new candidate selection process Labour have put in place. There will still be a selection convention for every constituency.

The new rules are as follows: the Organisation sub committee establishes a panel of people to form the candidate selection board (CSB). There are about 15 people on it including former politicans and active members. For each constituency a group of three is formed (who are not linked to the constituency ie members there) who then go about looking at potential candidates and anyone who is a member in the area can put themselves forward, plus all members in constituency are canvassed for their opinions etc.

The CSB then makes a recommendation of potential and number of candidates who then go forward to a selection convention. The convention can accept or reject the process only outright if i recall correctly.
In this case, Kerry North, maybe Arthur is the only candidate going forward. the other cllrs in the area may not have put themselves forward at all.

The process has already been applied in Dublin North Central where one candidate was to be selected and two options were put forward by the CSB- both were cllrs and a vote took place at the selection convention resulting in Aodhain O Riordain being selected.
 

RainyDay

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The new rules are as follows: the Organisation sub committee establishes a panel of people to form the candidate selection board (CSB). There are about 15 people on it including former politicans and active members. For each constituency a group of three is formed (who are not linked to the constituency ie members there) who then go about looking at potential candidates and anyone who is a member in the area can put themselves forward, plus all members in constituency are canvassed for their opinions etc.

The CSB then makes a recommendation of potential and number of candidates who then go forward to a selection convention. The convention can accept or reject the process only outright if i recall correctly.
You left out the bit about the gang-of-three interviewing potential candidates before they make their recommendation to the OSC.It is very strange that they are planning to use interviews as part of the selection process, but they won't have any specification to interview against, i.e. a job spec and a person spec. Also, I understand that the people involved are not being trained in how to interview, so watch out for piles of complaints (possibly involving the Equality Tribunal) when candidates get asked questions like;
- why would you be interested in this position at your age
- who is going to mind your kids while you are canvassing

etc etc.
 

KingKane

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You left out the bit about the gang-of-three interviewing potential candidates before they make their recommendation to the OSC.It is very strange that they are planning to use interviews as part of the selection process, but they won't have any specification to interview against, i.e. a job spec and a person spec. Also, I understand that the people involved are not being trained in how to interview, so watch out for piles of complaints (possibly involving the Equality Tribunal) when candidates get asked questions like;
- why would you be interested in this position at your age
- who is going to mind your kids while you are canvassing

etc etc.
It is also my understanding (open to correction) that notes taken at interviews are subject to FOI as they pertain to you. A failure to take any notes would lead to a suspicion that the interviews had something to hide.
 

Schuhart

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I don't know (and don't especially care) but is Spring Jnr's daddy Dick?

If so, all hail the Gombeenarchy.
 

redhead101

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It is also my understanding (open to correction) that notes taken at interviews are subject to FOI as they pertain to you. A failure to take any notes would lead to a suspicion that the interviews had something to hide.

Happy to provide a correction. FOI only applies to Gov Depts and state agencies.

Not saying that any such notes would not or could not be provided to an unsuccessful prospective candidate, but not under FOI.
 

redhead101

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... but they won't have any specification to interview against, i.e. a job spec
No Mystery there. Job is to be the Labour candidate at the next general election

and a person spec.
Again no mystery. The kind of person they will be looking for is the kind of person who can win a seat for Labour.

Also, I understand that the people involved are not being trained in how to interview so watch out for piles of complaints (possibly involving the Equality Tribunal)
Oh please. I've sat on umpteen interview panels without any "training" whatsoever. Have never had a complaint of any sort levelled against me.
 
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I don't know (and don't especially care) but is Spring Jnr's daddy Dick?

If so, all hail the Gombeenarchy.
all hail the Gombeenarchy

yes, the people have allowed the system to fail them.
 

kerrynorth

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I don't know (and don't especially care) but is Spring Jnr's daddy Dick?
He is Dick's nephew. He is well really qualified to be the Junior Minister for Juice Bars if elected!
 

whipper123

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He is Dick's nephew. He is well really qualified to be the Junior Minister for Juice Bars if elected!
This guy AJ hasn't a clue.................and this will be bourne out over time and before the next General Election..........The only reason he is getting the nomination is that no one else in Labour wants it........
 

RainyDay

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Happy to provide a correction. FOI only applies to Gov Depts and state agencies.

Not saying that any such notes would not or could not be provided to an unsuccessful prospective candidate, but not under FOI.
Correct - FOI would not apply, though general Data Protection legislation would

No Mystery there. Job is to be the Labour candidate at the next general election

Again no mystery. The kind of person they will be looking for is the kind of person who can win a seat for Labour.
The mystery is how on earth the Party could expect to do a good job a selecting the right candidate if they go in with this frame of mind. There are decades of HR experience/research/practice showing that interviewing is not a great way of selecting people, but when it is used, it is extremely important to know in detail what you are looking for.

If you have three people on a panel, they may well all have different views as to what kind of person is required and indeed what the job involves. If there is to be any hope that this system will be effective, those involved need to learn a little bit about how to use interviews to select people.

Oh please. I've sat on umpteen interview panels without any "training" whatsoever. Have never had a complaint of any sort levelled against me.
Well bully for you, but equality complaints arising from poor interview practice are not that unusual. Here's what I found in five minutes on the Equality Tribunal website;

http://www.equalitytribunal.ie/uploadedfiles/Decisions/EE-1999-08.PDF
The Equality Tribunal - Equality Tribunal publishes 1 Employment Equality Decision. £1000 awarded as a result of discriminatory questioning at interview
The Equality Tribunal - Equality Tribunal publishes 1 Employment Equality Decision. £5000 awarded against VEC for discrimination at interview
http://www.equalitytribunal.ie/uploadedfiles/Press/Press2002/DECE2002049.pdf
http://www.equalitytribunal.ie/uploadedfiles/Press/Press2002/DECE2002045.pdf
http://www.equalitytribunal.ie/uploadedfiles/Press/Press2001/DECE2001016.pdf

My experience in dealing with many established party apparatchiks is that they are very, very likely to ask the wrong questions during interview. Watch for this can of worms to explode as this process comes into play.
 

redhead101

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Well bully for you, but equality complaints arising from poor interview practice are not that unusual.
Not disputing that, but there is an internal appeal process in place for candidates who feel that they have been treated unfairly.
 

RainyDay

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Not disputing that, but there is an internal appeal process in place for candidates who feel that they have been treated unfairly.
Wouldn't it be preferable to prevent the unfair treatment from happening in the first place? An appeals process is no substitute for adequate preparation.
 

redhead101

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Wouldn't it be preferable to prevent the unfair treatment from happening in the first place? An appeals process is no substitute for adequate preparation.
You sound like your gearing up for disappointement yourself!
 

Kerrygold

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This guy AJ hasn't a clue.................and this will be bourne out over time and before the next General Election..........The only reason he is getting the nomination is that no one else in Labour wants it........

I'm sure Terry still wants it but knows the Springs will crush him if he tries.
 

RainyDay

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You sound like your gearing up for disappointement yourself!
Not a snowball's chancel in hell - I've seen what it does to people and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I will be working my ass off to support those who do go forward, mind you - hence my enthusiasm to ensure that we get the right people.
 

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