Article 116 of the Lisbon Treaty could be used to end low Irish corporate tax rates. Entrepreneurs to substitute for multinational investment?

Dame_Enda

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We have a veto. If this is not the case then we were lied to. The fact that this is on the agenda now means that there are clearly some slimy manoeuvrings going on at EU level to rob us of our sovereignty. The EU is about empire and its powers should not be enhanced. It is totally illegitimate and were it a nation, it would not qualify for EU entry as it would not meet the democracy criteria. It is illegitimate and all forms of resistance against it are justified.
Article 116 doesn't say we have a veto in that case. The OLP is QMV.
 


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Ditto. Twice.
I voted yes and no. Got it wrong both times, but for me the people had spoken in the first referendum. I hadn't agreed with the outcome, but vox populi, vox dei and all that.
 

ThatsReasonable

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I hate the attitude of those who support Ireland's tax haven carry-on.

'Hey we're Irish, if we don't cheat, we will lose. We're born losers. We have to cheat. We don't have what it takes to compete on a level playing field'.

This attitude is pathetic and insulting; I don't buy the idea that the corporations would flee if we properly implemented our 12.5% rate. Not for one second.
 

stopdoingstuff

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I voted yes and no. Got it wrong both times, but for me the people had spoken in the first referendum. I hadn't agreed with the outcome, but vox populi, vox dei and all that.
Fair play Des. That shows real integrity.
 

foxfordbhoy

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If I remember correctly there were 3 or 4 promises made to swing the second vote on the Lisbon Treaty. As far as I know, none of these have been carried into Law. With the forced repayment to bondholders, the robbing of our fishing stocks and the likely takeover of the level of corporation tax (and any other fiscal instrument that suits them), it would seem an oportune time to get out of EU. This would also resolve the border debacle.
 

making waves

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That's bollix, it means we ca no longer can make major decisions that effect what happens within our OWN borders, we are now a puppet state and FF and SF are loving it and defending it.
What is bollix is to think that 'we' have any control what happens within our own borders - this country is bent over taking up the rear end from the banks, clonglomerates, spivs and speculators.
 

ionsniffer

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lets hope the current brexit negotiatons will crash the eu project into the ground.
 

ionsniffer

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What is bollix is to think that 'we' have any control what happens within our own borders - this country is bent over taking up the rear end from the banks, clonglomerates, spivs and speculators.
we have no control on flooding the country with cheap labour from Eastern Europe etc. fingers crossed when the eu is demolished this this will too.
why you socialists support this is beyond me
 

Patslatt1

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I suppose, in theory, it could. However any proposals put forward must be adopted using the Ordinary Legislative Procedure... which means Ireland (at the Council of Ministers) can say NO at any point and such a proposal would fall.

I do remember corporation tax being discussed during Lisbon (not specifically Article 116 though) and here on p.ie too but it was debunked. Something about the EU not having competence over direct taxation and ECJ judgments etc on the broader matter.

I must look it up...
It would be very difficult to veto a vote of the EU parliament against our low tax rate.EU countries have been very cooperative in not abusing the veto.
 

puffin

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we have no control on flooding the country with cheap labour from Eastern Europe etc. fingers crossed when the eu is demolished this this will too.
why you socialists support this is beyond me
Because Socialism requires poor working class people to achieve power.
 

ionsniffer

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Because Socialism requires poor working class people to achieve power.
by replacing the poor in this country with poorer people from other countries making it harder for them to live their lives.. good idea:lol:
 

Patslatt1

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Always struck by the nature of political debate over Irish official corporate tax rates as something of a mythical debate seeing as no corporate pays anywhere approaching even the official low rate in Ireland and if they do they get it back in rebate form.

Mind you at least there is something of an equivalence across Europe and the US in that regard as none of the MSNs pay their official corporation tax rates either.

So what we have in terms of tax rates for corporates across Europe and the US is very much the sight of a group of multilingual bald men fighting over an entirely fictional comb.
Transfer pricing between members of a corporate family for services and intellectual property allow companies to move profits to the lowest corporate tax rate countries.It is often difficult to determine the true market prices of those transfers and many countries' tax departments turn a blind eye to aggressive transfers. Profits are also legitimately reduced by writeoffs on capital spending and R&D.
 

Patslatt1

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If every EU country would have full sovereignty over the taxation, they could all stop MNC from moving profits across borders and then Ireland would get nothing. It would be enough if all EU countries stop recognizing internal cross-border money transfers between linked companies as business expense (like paying for patents use, or paying for using a brand name) to foreign subsidiaries. If Ireland do not compromise then something like that could happen and this would be a disaster for Ireland.
So if s company spends billions developing a drug in England, it can't claim the costs of development against sales in Germany? That would be silly.
 

Patslatt1

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Except the OP doesn't pretend that at all. The EU can't force tax alterations on an unwilling country. It's that simple. No amount of squinting or hysterics will make it so.

On the wider corporation tax issue: If the US DO get their tax changes in and the UK follow suit in 2019, it's going to be more a case of the EU dropping their rates to closer to us than forcing everyone higher.
It would be hard for Ireland to veto a vote of the European parliament against our low corporate rate.
 

Patslatt1

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We have a veto. If this is not the case then we were lied to. The fact that this is on the agenda now means that there are clearly some slimy manoeuvrings going on at EU level to rob us of our sovereignty. The EU is about empire and its powers should not be enhanced. It is totally illegitimate and were it a nation, it would not qualify for EU entry as it would not meet the democracy criteria. It is illegitimate and all forms of resistance against it are justified.
Why didn't politicians and media highlight the risk of the article to national control of corporate tax systems?
 

RasherHash

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Get used to it. We are small fry in the scheme of things and will as usual be the best boys in class and say and do as told. In 1916 a stand was made against an empire now we are in a bigger much more oppressive one and the likes of FF and SF are loving it, it's a crazy world indeed.
SF were agin it from the start and now believe we are best sticking with it and reforming it

Not true at all to say sf are loving it.
 


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