"As a Catholic Michael McIlveen won't go to heaven&quot

bobbysands81

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I don't have the link so please don't jump on my back by posting the whole story.

This type of hatred only exists on one side. If a Republican uttered words like this I would be eternally ashamed and I'd demand that they be kicked out of any political paty that I'd be in, a bit of cop on and commonsense would have gone a long way here. How much must this man hate Catholics if he just couldn't keep his mouth shut at this incredibly difficult time.

How do the DUP supporters on here feel about these comments?

‘As a Catholic, he [Michael McIlveen] won’t get into heaven. Catholics are not accepted into heaven’ - DUP Councillor Roy Gillespieby Ciarán Barnes

A Democratic Unionist Party councillor in Ballymena has sparked outrage after he claimed that a Catholic murdered in a sectarian attack in the town “will not get into heaven” because of his religious beliefs.

As the family of Michael McIlveen prepare to bury the 15-year-old, DUP politician Roy Gillespie said he would not attend Monday’s funeral because it is being held in a Catholic church.

Mr Gillespie, a Protestant evangelical, made his comments after the McIlveen family invited Ian Paisley, the DUP leader and North Antrim MP, to the funeral.

Mr Paisley, the leader of the Free Presbyterian church and a staunch opponent of Catholicism, has yet to respond to the offer.

If Mr Paisley does attend, he will face fierce criticism from within his own church, particularly from hardliners such as Mr Gillespie.

Speaking to Daily Ireland yesterday, Mr Gillespie said his party leader had to decide for himself whether to attend the teenager’s funeral.
The borough councillor said: “I won’t be going to the funeral. Stepping foot in a Catholic church is against my religious beliefs.

“The Pope is the Antichrist and is the head of the Catholic church, which is not a true church or faith. I’m not going to listen to Mass in a Catholic church. I don’t care if it’s at a funeral, wedding or whatever else.”

Mr Gillespie said he prayed that Catholics would be saved. He said that, if Catholics did not repent before they died, they “will not get into heaven”.

“As a Catholic, he [Michael McIlveen] won’t get into heaven unless he has been saved. If he did not repent before he died and asked the Lord into his heart, he will not get into heaven. Catholics are not accepted into heaven.”

Mr Gillespie’s comments sparked a furious response from politicians angry at the timing of his remarks.

North Antrim Sinn Féin assembly member Philip McGuigan said: “Mr Gillespie’s sentiments are disgraceful, especially as they come so soon after a 15-year-old was murdered as a result of sectarian bigotry.

“This is the kind of attitude that causes others to carry out attacks fuelled by religious hatred. There is no excuse for these comments.”
Ballymena SDLP councillor Declan O’Loan described Mr Gillespie’s comments as unfortunate.

“There has been a wave of emotion and sympathy towards the McIlveen family. For anyone to say something that is not of this accord is very out of order indeed,” he said.

“This is not a positive contribution to good community relations in Ballymena.”

Inviting Mr Paisley to the funeral, Michael’s uncle Francis McIlveen said: “I would like him to be there. He was the first one to ring me at the hospital. He is the MP for the area and, to me, he has the right to be there.
“It doesn’t matter what anybody else says, it is what we want. If he wants to come, then he is more than welcome.”

Organisers of a loyalist band parade that is scheduled to pass the spot where Michael McIlveen was murdered are understood to be in talks aimed at postponing the march.

The Ballykeel Loyal Sons of Ulster originally planned to march through Ballymena on May 20.

Churchmen in the town have asked the band to postpone the parade to ease tension.

Sinn Féin yesterday cancelled its north Antrim hunger strike commemorations to help improve community relations.
 


Gladstone

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Re: "As a Catholic Michael McIlveen won't go to heaven&

bobbysands81 said:
‘As a Catholic, he [Michael McIlveen] won’t get into heaven. Catholics are not accepted into heaven’ - DUP Councillor Roy Gillespieby Ciarán Barnes
Amazing how he knows this, did God tell him? :roll:
 

DSCH

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Re: "As a Catholic Michael McIlveen won't go to heaven&

bobbysands81 said:
I don't have the link so please don't jump on my back by posting the whole story.

This type of hatred only exists on one side. If a Republican uttered words like this I would be eternally ashamed and I'd demand that they be kicked out of any political paty that I'd be in, a bit of cop on and commonsense would have gone a long way here. How much must this man hate Catholics if he just couldn't keep his mouth shut at this incredibly difficult time.
Indeed, another reason why southerners are happy with the staus quo, when it comes to partition.
 

daithimac

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rev paisley really should show some moral leadership and condem this man and what he has said. this is a cold and evil statement which regardless of the mans religous beliefs was not necessary at this time.
 

Seánod

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daithimac said:
rev paisley really should show some moral leadership and condem this man and what he has said. this is a cold and evil statement which regardless of the mans religous beliefs was not necessary at this time.
Not defending the man here. Atrocious remark at this sensitive time. But could someone enlighten me as to how this statement came about? Was it the case that he offered the statement, or was it the case that some journalist tried to force him into a corner? This is a view we all know that many in the DUP and Born-Again Christians hold. It's nothing new. The timing might have more to do with a journalist frothing at the mouth for a headline, than any deliberate attempt at callousness by Gillespie.

The tragedy is the death of the young boy. I have no time for Paisley, but it was interesting that he was the first one to ring the boy's uncle in the hospital. That equally could have made a more positive headline. But its not controversial enough for parasitical journalists. It probably wouldn't be controversial enough to begin a thread with either.
 
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Re: "As a Catholic Michael McIlveen won't go to heaven&

DSCH said:
bobbysands81 said:
I don't have the link so please don't jump on my back by posting the whole story.

This type of hatred only exists on one side. If a Republican uttered words like this I would be eternally ashamed and I'd demand that they be kicked out of any political paty that I'd be in, a bit of cop on and commonsense would have gone a long way here. How much must this man hate Catholics if he just couldn't keep his mouth shut at this incredibly difficult time.
Indeed, another reason why southerners are happy with the staus quo, when it comes to partition.
You are a minority in the south, most polls show a large majority want a utd Ireland so stop speaking like you represent all southerners, when in fact you represent a minority in the south.
 

Gladstone

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I'd be willing to bet those numbers would change (not nessicarily giving us a majority no bit a signifigant minority) when people consider the real implications of a United Ireland.

WHen asked that question now they respond to it as a romantic notion, not a practical reality.

It's like asking Americans "do you support our troops" or "do you love america" nobody is going to say no.
 

daithimac

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ye its always been the thought of the whole islands political system getting bogged down in crap like the north has be which makes me fear for a united Ireland
 

AndrewM

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Interesting how 'Daily Ireland' dug up this story. At a time when others are trying to ease tensions, they go out and write this. Not out of any sense of justice, just to sell a few more papers. No one's better off, but SF politicians can walk around on the high moral ground, and sure wasn't his death worth it?
 

Sidewinder

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Apparently this is the same guy claimed that Hurricane Katrine was the wrath of God for all the gays in New Orleans.

Typical DUP.

To all the smug partitionists: this sort of crap wouldn't last long in a UI. It only continues to exist in the north because it is given official cover and protection and nourishment by the State.

People in the north aren't some sort of alien race. Genetically they are identical to you. The north is a sectarian sewer dependent on hand-outs because that's the way the Imperial power wants it. No other reason.
 

Gladstone

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Sidewinder said:
Apparently this is the same guy claimed that Hurricane Katrine was the wrath of God for all the gays in New Orleans.

Typical DUP.

To all the smug partitionists: this sort of crap wouldn't last long in a UI. It only continues to exist in the north because it is given official cover and protection and nourishment by the State.

People in the north aren't some sort of alien race. Genetically they are identical to you. The north is a sectarian sewer dependent on hand-outs because that's the way the Imperial power wants it. No other reason.
I resent that tone of that.

I'd vote for a UI if I thought it would add to our nation, but I don't like the idea of people like that using the state to invade personal lives and ram their religion down our throughts like conservative republicans do in southern US states.

and they COULD do it because in a UI they would be a very significant voting block, a change in the border is not going to change their attitudes.
 

EastGalway

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Sidewinder said:
Apparently this is the same guy claimed that Hurricane Katrine was the wrath of God for all the gays in New Orleans.
In fact, it isn't. That was Cllr Maurice Mills. Just goes to show that the fundaloonie element in the DUP is not a fringe phenomenon. These freaks are the backbone of the DUP, not the likes of the more media savvy Peter Robinson types.
 

Seánod

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AndrewM said:
Interesting how 'Daily Ireland' dug up this story. At a time when others are trying to ease tensions, they go out and write this. Not out of any sense of justice, just to sell a few more papers. No one's better off, but SF politicians can walk around on the high moral ground, and sure wasn't his death worth it?
I have very little time for journalists of any hue who live off situations like this...and I hope you would think likewise about many of the papers who act similarly towards republicans.

But I reject your imagery in relation to Sinn Féin here, which actually smacks a little of the journalism you yourself are trying to criticise.
 
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Gladstone said:
I'd be willing to bet those numbers would change (not nessicarily giving us a majority no bit a signifigant minority) when people consider the real implications of a United Ireland.

WHen asked that question now they respond to it as a romantic notion, not a practical reality.

It's like asking Americans "do you support our troops" or "do you love america" nobody is going to say no.
Thats Bull, did the Germans change their mind once they knew the implications as far as I know its still utd, ask the Koreans what they want, they will say a utd Korea and they are willing to accept the economic consequences, your faith in the Irish people is obviously limited, mines not.

Sometimes romantic notions over come hard nose economics thats the beauty of the human race and long may it continue
 

Sidewinder

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That's bogeymonstering nonsense. Unionism has got about 18% of the vote. How are they going to translate that into a fundamentalist jihad across the whole island? They can yell and scream and wibble about God all they want, the rest of us can simply ignore them.

Unless yer suggesting that FF or FG in a coalition with the DUP would agree to banning homosexuality again? Hold a referendum to outlaw divorce again, and the people might actually vote for it?

How, exactly, in practice, would "those sort of people" be able to ram their lunatic religious views down the throats of the rest of the populace in an all-Ireland state?
 

Dee Four

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Seánod said:
Was it the case that he offered the statement, or was it the case that some journalist tried to force him into a corner?
In fairness, if he is at all a decent politician he could have said something along the lines of "for obvious reasons, I don't think its appropriate for me to comment on such things. Naturally, I hope he has found eternal salvation."

Even if he was backed into a corner, what he said was pure filth.

AndrewM said:
and sure wasn't his death worth it?
What a horrible comment. What precedent do you use to back up this statement?
 

Gladstone

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Sidewinder said:
That's bogeymonstering nonsense. Unionism has got about 18% of the vote. How are they going to translate that into a fundamentalist jihad across the whole island? They can yell and scream and wibble about God all they want, the rest of us can simply ignore them.

Unless yer suggesting that FF or FG in a coalition with the DUP would agree to banning homosexuality again? Hold a referendum to outlaw divorce again, and the people might actually vote for it?

How, exactly, in practice, would "those sort of people" be able to ram their lunatic religious views down the throats of the rest of the populace in an all-Ireland state?
To quote a PD when they were going into coalition with FF for the first time "their main worry seemed to be who got what cabinet seats and who got what junior ministries, policy was at the back of their mind they didn't really care about policy concessions".

FF would do anything for power and FG have a very strong socially conservaitve wing.

As for the econommic effects, it's stupid, just plain stupid to be blind to the effects it might have all in the name of romantic nationalism.
 


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