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Ask Not What Your Country Can do For You....


Bren Boru

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
1,461
It seems that every second thread on P.ie these days is anti Government i.e. anti an administration that is in power for less that 2 years with a mandate to sort out a crisis that will take 10 years to somewhat resolve.

The negativity is crucifying. The vast majority of posts to these threads reek of entitlement. People are prepared to criticise but not to give. Posters don't seem to accept a reality that a deficit of over €10bn is a) unsustainable, b) reducing, and c) not created by either of the parties in power right now. The sense of unreality from posters who claim to have all the answers but couldn't actually run a school jamboree is bordering on hilarious.

And anyone who claims to have any respect or support for this Government is slammed and ridiculed, which I will be after I post this.

When criticising the country or the Government, people should be clear what their standard is or who they are comparing country or Government too. Personally I feel grateful to live in a country where my daughter will receive free education up to when she leaves secondary school. My Dad, at 82, gets partially subsidised by the State to spend his final years in a nursing home. When we needed carers assistance we received it, when we needed more we paid for it. If we are asked to pay more for my Dads care we will happliy stump it up.

Like everyone else, we are getting less in childcare after the last budget, but so be it. We will make our adjustment as necessary. And that doesn't make me a poodle or a Government patsie or whatever. Simply, anything is preferable to the State going under.

Nothing is perfect. I believe that universal benefits should be means tested or taxed. Why should people in Ballymun subsidise people in Foxrock. I don't understand why Governments don't tackle this and there should be an intention to deal with this announced by the sitting Government with the intention of it being brought in within, say 2 years. I also have issues with paying unsecured bond holders. But those criticising the actions of the Government have a) never negotiated for as much as a bag of fruit, and, b) have no concept of what would arise from unilateral default. The Government won't pay the promissory note next year but that won't be enough for most people, particularly those who were so certain that the Euro was going to wind up 2 years ago, then 18 months ago, then 1 year ago etc. If you keep saying it often enough, it will happen eventually.

Also, there are weak links in Government. Hogan and Reilly are liabilities. Of that there is no doubt. I can only think that Enda Kenny has decided that there will be no cabinet resignations in his time. However, like I say, nothing is perfect and the faults of this Government are miniscule compared to what we've been through in the previous 14 years.

I do believe that this Government will restore economic sovereignty. And it will do so by taking the hard decisions for which we will all pay. When that is done, it will be payback time and the country (and hopefully the most vulnerable) will share in the fruits of a competitive and revived economy, in a responsible manner.

I am aware that our representatives are well paid and an example needs to be set from above. However, the current Government has taken pay cuts and the Taoiseach is paid substantially less than is predecessors. Also, no more will we say the massive pay off for retiring ministers that the last FF bunch paid themselves. Many P.ie posters think that the measure of a good Taoiseach or a good Government is the size of the reduction in pay that they take.

We need to take responsibility for ourselves, our families and our neighbours (particularly the elderly), and keep community at the heart of what we do. We should never forget how lucky most of us are, and work for those who aren't so lucky. We should set the right example to our kids and teach them to be compassionate and unselfish. We should be thankful that we live in a democracy. And above all we should stop the incessant whinging and take responsibility for ourselves, our community and our country.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,597
As long as the Travellers don't move in next door, isn't that right Phil?
 

SeanieFitz

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
12,225
good post Bren and i agree with most of what you have said.

I realised long ago that most of the opinions, sentiments and vitriol posted on this site do not reflect the opinions of people in "the real world". this site is an extension of the Joe Duffy show where some posters can vent their anger, moan, post untruths, encourage division and pursue their own agenda.
I posted some time ago that i believe that the overwhelming majority of our current government work damn hard, are committed and honest. by god did i get some abuse. but thats the way things are on this site, regrettably politics.ie has a large number of sideline hurlers!
 

Eire1976

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
14,190
It seems that every second thread on P.ie these days is anti Government i.e. anti an administration that is in power for less that 2 years with a mandate to sort out a crisis that will take 10 years to somewhat resolve.

The negativity is crucifying. The vast majority of posts to these threads reek of entitlement. People are prepared to criticise but not to give. Posters don't seem to accept a reality that a deficit of over €10bn is a) unsustainable, b) reducing, and c) not created by either of the parties in power right now. The sense of unreality from posters who claim to have all the answers but couldn't actually run a school jamboree is bordering on hilarious.

And anyone who claims to have any respect or support for this Government is slammed and ridiculed, which I will be after I post this.

When criticising the country or the Government, people should be clear what their standard is or who they are comparing country or Government too. Personally I feel grateful to live in a country where my daughter will receive free education up to when she leaves secondary school. My Dad, at 82, gets partially subsidised by the State to spend his final years in a nursing home. When we needed carers assistance we received it, when we needed more we paid for it. If we are asked to pay more for my Dads care we will happliy stump it up.

Like everyone else, we are getting less in childcare after the last budget, but so be it. We will make our adjustment as necessary. And that doesn't make me a poodle or a Government patsie or whatever. Simply, anything is preferable to the State going under.

Nothing is perfect. I believe that universal benefits should be means tested or taxed. Why should people in Ballymun subsidise people in Foxrock. I don't understand why Governments don't tackle this and there should be an intention to deal with this announced by the sitting Government with the intention of it being brought in within, say 2 years. I also have issues with paying unsecured bond holders. But those criticising the actions of the Government have a) never negotiated for as much as a bag of fruit, and, b) have no concept of what would arise from unilateral default. The Government won't pay the promissory note next year but that won't be enough for most people, particularly those who were so certain that the Euro was going to wind up 2 years ago, then 18 months ago, then 1 year ago etc. If you keep saying it often enough, it will happen eventually.

Also, there are weak links in Government. Hogan and Reilly are liabilities. Of that there is no doubt. I can only think that Enda Kenny has decided that there will be no cabinet resignations in his time. However, like I say, nothing is perfect and the faults of this Government are miniscule compared to what we've been through in the previous 14 years.

I do believe that this Government will restore economic sovereignty. And it will do so by taking the hard decisions for which we will all pay. When that is done, it will be payback time and the country (and hopefully the most vulnerable) will share in the fruits of a competitive and revived economy, in a responsible manner.

I am aware that our representatives are well paid and an example needs to be set from above. However, the current Government has taken pay cuts and the Taoiseach is paid substantially less than is predecessors. Also, no more will we say the massive pay off for retiring ministers that the last FF bunch paid themselves. Many P.ie posters think that the measure of a good Taoiseach or a good Government is the size of the reduction in pay that they take.

We need to take responsibility for ourselves, our families and our neighbours (particularly the elderly), and keep community at the heart of what we do. We should never forget how lucky most of us are, and work for those who aren't so lucky. We should set the right example to our kids and teach them to be compassionate and unselfish. We should be thankful that we live in a democracy. And above all we should stop the incessant whinging and take responsibility for ourselves, our community and our country.
Politicians the world over have sold their souls to vested intersts long ago. The days of really dedicated highly motivated leaders is long gone.

Look at the crop that we have had for the last 30 years or more. All are tainted by big business dealings and corruption.

Hard to really believe that good can come from a rotten system.
 

Potatoeman

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,827
The government need to lead by example and take some major pay cuts and go after Berties pensions too. The government are not doing what’s best for the country at the moment they are doing what's most convenient/easy and if you don’t have a strong lobby to represent you your screwed.
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,155
Brave post Brian. you will take some stick for it here. Apparently we live in a hell hole that Dante himself could not envisage. I believe the vast majority of our public representatives do their best in a system that limits any independent voice (whip system etc).
I do wish things would move faster here and I believe the legal system has become far to much in favour of the accused to the point where people are afraid to say boo for fear of being dragged to the high court. I want heads to roll for the Anglo Irish debacle and the bank Guarantee. I want those in charge at the time and the bankers who caused so much strife to be locked away for the sake of our national psyche if anything.
 

Potatoeman

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,827
Brave post Brian. you will take some stick for it here. Apparently we live in a hell hole that Dante himself could not envisage. I believe the vast majority of our public representatives do their best in a system that limits any independent voice (whip system etc).
I do wish things would move faster here and I believe the legal system has become far to much in favour of the accused to the point where people are afraid to say boo for fear of being dragged to the high court. I want heads to roll for the Anglo Irish debacle and the bank Guarantee. I want those in charge at the time and the bankers who caused so much strife to be locked away for the sake of our national psyche if anything.
No bankers will go to jail because the financial regulator did not do their job. If you want to blame someone look to the financial regulator first.
The media have done a great job deflecting responsibility from themselves and the key government institutions that hold equal blame.
 
S

SeamusNapoleon

Bren,

I apologise for giving such a short reply to your OP, but potatoeman has it right; the government literally have no concept right now of what it is to be sick with worry over a bill. They are grossly overpaid (not 'well paid', overpaid) and have no right to expect anything from us until they rectify this.

They are incapable of empathy at that pay level.
 
G

Gimpanzee

No bankers will go to jail because the financial regulator did not do their job. If you want to blame someone look to the financial regulator first.
The media have done a great job deflecting responsibility from themselves and the key government institutions that hold equal blame.
The media is only as much to blame for anything - from hacking to property pimping - as the society it exists in. The media is a symptom not a cause. Same goes for politicians in almost all cases.

Start with the electorate, because they are the root of it all. We have a lot of poorly educated people when it comes to civic matters and we let them vote. And after almost a century of that we have deeply ingrained systems that are in technical jargon.... sh!te.

All else is waffle.
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,155
Brave post Brian. you will take some stick for it here. Apparently we live in a hell hole that Dante himself could not envisage. I believe the vast majority of our public representatives do their best in a system that limits any independent voice (whip system etc).
I do wish things would move faster here and I believe the legal system has become far to much in favour of the accused to the point where people are afraid to say boo for fear of being dragged to the high court. I want heads to roll for the Anglo Irish debacle and the bank Guarantee. I want those in charge at the time and the bankers who caused so much strife to be locked away for the sake of our national psyche if anything.
No bankers will go to jail because the financial regulator did not do their job. If you want to blame someone look to the financial regulator first.
The media have done a great job deflecting responsibility from themselves and the key government institutions that hold equal blame.
Thats why I said...
I want those in charge at the time
to be done too. I believe our senior civil servants failed miserably to stand their ground on certain issues although the fact that the mejia here would have torn any regulator a new one if they tried to impose their silly rules on such heros as Seanie Fitz in the early 2000's. Still thats why Neary et al were paid megabucks.
 

R3volution_R3ady

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,370
But Bren, how can you expect to find common ground with other posters when their opinions differ fundamentally from yours? We're not "all in this together" and your ideal society and what it would consist of may be totally opposite to what other people may believe is right for them. Just because you have "free healthcare" as people put it in this country, doesn't mean that the country is great. It's not a measure for everyone of how good a country or a government is...

Newsflash, this is the internet. The people that comment on this site are not going to be your average voters. If they were, they wouldn't be here. Some people are perhaps put to one side because they don't agree with the mainstream opinion but because of that, they're not trolls causing derailing of threads. They're ordinary people that have come to the conclusion that their positions are correct given the opportunities they have had to dive a little deeper into certain issues that perhaps the majority haven't.

I accept the debt is unsustainable. We need to cut. But the things that should be cut and that are being cut right now are not the same. For example, we have hundreds of quangos, agencies and departments in this country (jobs for the boys) filled to the top with FF and FG men and women. Why are these not gone yet? They're costing the country billions and they're actually impeding a vibrant market.

You're not going to tax your way out of recession. People need to save and to keep what money they have in their back pockets. This whole idea of a property tax is not even a tax on property. FG said they wouldn't raise income taxes, but what is this exactly? Property cannot be taxed. You can't tax my property. Only people can be taxed and the money that now needs to be paid to government is not coming out of my next door neighbours wages, it's coming out of mine! What is that if not a tax on income?

There are more people out of work now than there were when FG came into power. Over a thousand young people that have only left their university gates are leaving this country and unlike the 1800s, 1900's and 1980's, this generation don't have a nostalgic romanticised sentiment towards the country at large. In fact, they're disappointed and ashamed.

I accept that a lot of hard decisions need to be taken. We all do. But what we won't accept is that the people making those decisions have chosen to insulate themselves and people closest to them while it's a different story for everyone else. This government are driving us over a cliff. Will we need another bailout? And anyone with even a basic understanding of how economies collapse and why they grow along with a eye at the history book can see the problems coming down the road. That's why it's frustrating to see these clowns walk straight into it with their eyes open. If the economy doesn't get going, your daughter won't have "free healthcare".
 

Potatoeman

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,827
The media is only as much to blame for anything - from hacking to property pimping - as the society it exists in. The media is a symptom not a cause. Same goes for politicians in almost all cases.

Start with the electorate, because they are the root of it all. We have a lot of poorly educated people when it comes to civic matters and we let them vote. And after almost a century of that we have deeply ingrained systems that are in technical jargon.... sh!te.

All else is waffle.
They were biased and deserve criticism for their pandering to property porn.
 

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
It seems that every second thread on P.ie these days is anti Government i.e. anti an administration that is in power for less that 2 years with a mandate to sort out a crisis that will take 10 years to somewhat resolve.
They have reneged on a host of their electoral promises less than 2 years in office.

not created by either of the parties in power right now.
FG and Lab are in power right now!

And anyone who claims to have any respect or support for this Government is slammed and ridiculed, which I will be after I post this.
What do you expect? Thanks? You deserve ridicule.

Personally I feel grateful to live in a country where my daughter will receive free education up to when she leaves secondary school.
What about her chances of getting a college education or getting a job in this country?

My Dad, at 82, gets partially subsidised by the State to spend his final years in a nursing home.
What about people who cannot afford a nursing home because of the partial subsidy?

When we needed carers assistance we received it, when we needed more we paid for it. If we are asked to pay more for my Dads care we will happliy stump it up.
What about people who cannot afford it?

Like everyone else, we are getting less in childcare after the last budget, but so be it. We will make our adjustment as necessary.
What about people who have fallen over a cliff with the latest "adjustment." Call it a CUT you muppet!

Simply, anything is preferable to the State going under.
If we get freezing weather this winter and old people DIE because they can't afford to heat themselves is that preferable? A young man just DIED in Bray from the cold.

I believe that universal benefits should be means tested or taxed.
You want to tax people into destitution?

However, like I say, nothing is perfect and the faults of this Government are miniscule compared to what we've been through in the previous 14 years.
That excuse simply does not cut. Blaming their ineptitude on previous ineptitude is a bunch of crap.

And it will do so by taking the hard decisions for which we will all pay. When that is done, it will be payback time and the country (and hopefully the most vulnerable) will share in the fruits of a competitive and revived economy, in a responsible manner.
The poor will pay and the rich will enjoy the fruits.

I am aware that our representatives are well paid
They are OVERPAID numbnuts!

and an example needs to be set from above.
They have their snouts in the trough.

However, the current Government has taken pay cuts and the Taoiseach is paid substantially less than is predecessors.
Kenny is paid more than Barack Obama! FFS!

Also, no more will we say the massive pay off for retiring ministers that the last FF bunch paid themselves. Many P.ie posters think that the measure of a good Taoiseach or a good Government is the size of the reduction in pay that they take.
They enjoy massive salaries and massive pensions regardless of how bad a job they do.

We need to take responsibility for ourselves, our families and our neighbours (particularly the elderly), and keep community at the heart of what we do. We should never forget how lucky most of us are, and work for those who aren't so lucky. We should set the right example to our kids and teach them to be compassionate and unselfish. We should be thankful that we live in a democracy. And above all we should stop the incessant whinging and take responsibility for ourselves, our community and our country.
How about the banks started lending? How about the tax man got off the people's backs? How about somebody went to jail for bankrupting the country?
 

Dorcha

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
3,928
People would be fools to give unquestioned loyalty to a government that has shown no loyalty to its own people. I'm one of those who don't like hassle, but there comes a time when you realise you've been a fool for staying quite. Ever action of this government has been self-serving of a kind so blatant that it simply can't be covered up. You may say black is white all you like, but it remains black.
 
G

Gimpanzee

Bren,

I apologise for giving such a short reply to your OP, but potatoeman has it right; the government literally have no concept right now of what it is to be sick with worry over a bill. They are grossly overpaid (not 'well paid', overpaid) and have no right to expect anything from us until they rectify this.

They are incapable of empathy at that pay level.
That is clueless drivel. Every politician, from every party, is made very well aware of how their constituents faring, because they deal with theses sort of issues every single week. Do you have any concept of what a politician actually does?
 

ScreeOrTalus

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
4,036
Nothing is perfect. I believe that universal benefits should be means tested or taxed. Why should people in Ballymun subsidise people in Foxrock.
Or, as my parents might ask, why should people in Rathfarnham subsidise people in Ballymun and Foxrock.
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,155
The media is only as much to blame for anything - from hacking to property pimping - as the society it exists in. The media is a symptom not a cause. Same goes for politicians in almost all cases.
I disagree. The media tell the vast majority of people what to think. They push the agendas and can make or break someone based on hearsay. I am sorry to admit that I fell for a lot of what was considered gospel back in the day. Before I got my head out of my ass and started reading up on things I just assumed that what was in the papers was the truth as journalists would have a moral obligation to tell the truth. Turns out its more opinion than fact and its more who you know than what you know in this country.

Of course many posters on here will agree with me until one of their unquestionable truths is questioned and then they go into the 'lalala I'm not listening' bunker. I was concerned that maybe I was falling for that myself during the recent Quinn Saga but I still believe he and his clan are just really wealthy cute hoors that this country seems to produce in droves.
 
G

Gimpanzee

They were biased and deserve criticism for their pandering to property porn.
Why? What should they have done? Claimed that 'No 24 Middle Class Terrace isn't quite the gem that you might expect. There's a dank smell of piss from the back room and rumours that nobody famous ever stayed there'. And shown a picture of the jacks bowl?
 

ScreeOrTalus

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
4,036
We need to take responsibility for ourselves, our families and our neighbours (particularly the elderly), and keep community at the heart of what we do.
Yeah, and we also need to end the debt slavery to the Money Power, leave the EU, and end Third World immigration.

But I suppose it's better to stick to Kosher local matters.
 

Bren Boru

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
1,461
They have reneged on a host of their electoral promises less than 2 years in office.



FG and Lab are in power right now!
And you recently posted a joke about breast cancer on this site. Enough said.
 
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