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"Asking Rents" and the Irish Property Owners Assoc


Corroboration

Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
45
Lads, just a thought.

These daft index figures are not actual rents, but “asking rents”.

So what this is showing is that the BTL crowd, under increasing pressure of repayments, are desperately pushing for higher rents. That is not to say that higher rents are being achieved.

In view of the rising rental volumes available, it may be the case that financial reality is causing BTL’ers to push for higher rents, but market fundamentals suggest that in reality they must accept falling rents or fail to rent.

This brings us to the partial successes and failures of propoganda in various areas. Rents rise where renters fall for propoganda that rents are rising. It’s the same old thing all over again – bubble pyschology. You have to remember that Landlords have organisation such as the Irish Property Owners Asociation to coordinate these types of market distorting tactics. These tactics prey on the individual and isolated nature of the renter who has nothing to counteract the false impression formed in his mind. There should be an Irish Property Renters Association or Union.

Rents will only rise if Renters bring about a rise in rents.

My advice is to risk a lease non renewal. Ask for a reduction before you are asked for a rise! Despite the propoganda there will always be a distressed landlord somwehere (hence the rental volumes). Fuedal Tenure in the modern age comes home to roost, dontcha just love it!

Finally, is Freedom lover president or a member of the Irish Property Owners Association? It’s propaganda officer perhaps? It would explain a lot!
 


kerrynorth

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,525
www.thepropertypin.com is the best source of info on rents that I am aware of, they have a number of threads running on it.
 

ibis

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
12,359
Re: "Asking Rents" and the Irish Property Owners A

Corroboration said:
Lads, just a thought.

These daft index figures are not actual rents, but “asking rents”.

So what this is showing is that the BTL crowd, under increasing pressure of repayments, are desperately pushing for higher rents. That is not to say that higher rents are being achieved.

In view of the rising rental volumes available, it may be the case that financial reality is causing BTL’ers to push for higher rents, but market fundamentals suggest that in reality they must accept falling rents or fail to rent.
That's certainly an explanation that allows us to have a rising stock of properties to rent, at the same time as a reported rise in rents.

Do we really honestly genuinely not have such a thing as a rent survey, or a property price survey, conducted on rents and prices actually paid?
 

Sidewinder

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2004
Messages
442
Re: "Asking Rents" and the Irish Property Owners A

ibis said:
Do we really honestly genuinely not have such a thing as a rent survey, or a property price survey, conducted on rents and prices actually paid?
It's worse than that, Jim.

We don't have hard data on any aspect of the entire property business. The entire thing is shrouded in secrecy and nudge-nudge. We don't have accurate data on asking prices, never mind knowing what prices actual houses actually sold at; we don't know sales volumes; we don't have accurate breakdowns of buyer categories (FTB, tradeup, tradedown, investor) within those non-existent volumes; we don't know rents achieved; we don't know rental volumes or the level of churn in the rental market.....

We know nothing. All we can do is try and slice through the spin, glean occasional nuggets from various "reports", use anecdotes and website-scraping, all in order to put together a guess of what is really going on. Everything to do with property in the country is treated like a State Secret.
 

Akrasia

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
1,128
kerrynorth said:
www.thepropertypin.com is the best source of info on rents that I am aware of, they have a number of threads running on it.
I feel like a kid asking someone to buy him fags, but could you have a word with whoever moderates that website and ask him to approve my e-mail address. I've tried to register a few times but they never let me in (the bastards)
 

kerrynorth

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,525
Akrasia said:
kerrynorth said:
www.thepropertypin.com is the best source of info on rents that I am aware of, they have a number of threads running on it.
I feel like a kid asking someone to buy him fags, but could you have a word with whoever moderates that website and ask him to approve my e-mail address. I've tried to register a few times but they never let me in (the bastards)
PM Andrew (p.ie administrator) he has something to do with the running of the site.
 

Aragon

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
32
Look fellas, the truth about rents is as simple as this. People who could not afford to buy houses because of their outrageous cost will not be able to afford higher rent for the same reason. A sensible calculation needs to be made: what can people on average salaries be expcted to afford AFTER paying for huge energy bills, huge telephone bills, school books, massively increased food costs, medical and dental costs etc etc etc etc etc etc

Get real. You've been left high and dry - all you amateur property investors especially. You've been treated with all the same contempt and cynicism as the people you are now hoping to exploit to get you out of the jam you got yourselves into.

There are almost a qaurter of a million empty houses in Ireland. The scale of this goverment's deception and incompetence will come home to roost yet.
 

ibis

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
12,359
Re: "Asking Rents" and the Irish Property Owners A

Sidewinder said:
ibis said:
Do we really honestly genuinely not have such a thing as a rent survey, or a property price survey, conducted on rents and prices actually paid?
It's worse than that, Jim.

We don't have hard data on any aspect of the entire property business. The entire thing is shrouded in secrecy and nudge-nudge. We don't have accurate data on asking prices, never mind knowing what prices actual houses actually sold at; we don't know sales volumes; we don't have accurate breakdowns of buyer categories (FTB, tradeup, tradedown, investor) within those non-existent volumes; we don't know rents achieved; we don't know rental volumes or the level of churn in the rental market.....

We know nothing. All we can do is try and slice through the spin, glean occasional nuggets from various "reports", use anecdotes and website-scraping, all in order to put together a guess of what is really going on. Everything to do with property in the country is treated like a State Secret.
It really is fecking incredible. Mind you, any scientific survey I was ever involved with in this country had exactly the same problem - there was nobody collecting baseline data, or you couldn't have it, or you'd swear somebody had set out to bollix it up before they even started.
 

cyberianpan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
16,625
Website
www.google.com
Mmmmmmm can't the stamping office provide a sevrice here ?

I'm thinking one of the major features of an efficient market is information dissemination. The stamping office have the figures on house sales. Also above a certain threshold (think tis €21k) all leases have to be stamped.

Why not require all rental agreements to be stamped (& the revenue commissioners to leverage this source rather than their present methods). Rather than a % fee I'm thinking of some processing fee : say €40 per agreement.

This central registration would help tennants establish their rights, help landlors when people run out of informal arranagements... and move us towards an efficient property market ?

cYp
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,910
Aragon said:
There are almost a qaurter of a million empty houses in Ireland. The scale of this goverment's deception and incompetence will come home to roost yet.
Free will in buying houses and people not forced to do so for living in or for investment purposes.

Govt is not to blame if people wish to spend their own money.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,910
cyberianpan said:
Mmmmmmm can't the stamping office provide a sevrice here ?

I'm thinking one of the major features of an efficient market is information dissemination. The stamping office have the figures on house sales. Also above a certain threshold (think tis €21k) all leases have to be stamped.

Why not require all rental agreements to be stamped (& the revenue commissioners to leverage this source rather than their present methods). Rather than a % fee I'm thinking of some processing fee : say €40 per agreement.

This central registration would help tennants establish their rights, help landlors when people run out of informal arranagements... and move us towards an efficient property market ?

cYp
UK Land Registry online shows what a house has been sold for since 2000, in addition sites like Rightmove.co.uk show rentals as well plus there is lots of other infor as well.
 

feargach

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
4,995
Re: "Asking Rents" and the Irish Property Owners A

Corroboration said:
Lads, just a thought.

These daft index figures are not actual rents, but “asking rents”.
You want my dirty socks? That'll be a million euro please.

Never mind that the buyer has walked away, the fact that I want that figure for them means that a pair of dirty socks are now an asset worth a million euro.

Better hurry and wash 'em, or the taxman'll be after you.
 

nidge

New member
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
1
rents on the ground view

i am a landlord and i have also rented as a landlord to suit my needs at the time , i am not up to date with the daft report. but yes rents in my view have stabilised and maybe on a slight rise. but the main cost factor on rents like any other commodity is supply and demand.
while property prices are still falling ,rents have stabilised, And while rents have fallen interest rates have also fallen to counter act this cost .so i don,t see the fall in rents as a problem on paying a mortgage.
what i believe is the investor is simply selling up getting out of the market.
What has changed is the tax treatment of residential investors, since April 09 there are certain recent investors with high interest payments not making any profit and still warrant a tax liability. it does not make commercial sense to operate .But what really messed up the property market was tax breaks in the last 10 years . i.e section 23 check this one out . property investors making large rental profits didn,t have to pay any tax if they bought a section 23 property ,purchase one of these properties and you got 80% capital allowances on there rental income. buy one for €500,000 and you got €400,000 of a tax break . this was fianna fail economics rather than paying tax, a property investor buys one of these properties at a over inflated price due to the tax breaks, the state pays 80% and the investor gets to keep the property. one of many messed up reasons we are where we are, my advice price around and rents outside dublin does not have supply issues.
 

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