Assassination in slow motion: can't we help the Collins family live in peace?

He3

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Edit: the latest on this family's story is told by Kathy Sheridan in the Weekend Section of the Irish Times August 21, 2010. As the political squabbling over the Michael Collins commemoration absorbs some of our politicians and their acolytes perhaps they might stop and ask if Michael Collins' memory might be better served by helping the living members of another Collins family to recover a life of dignity and peace.

Thread title has been amended.


Roy Collins was a victim of Ireland's continued toleration of the death penalty. His family is unusual but not unique in standing up proudly and having enough faith in our justice system to expect it would protect them.

Officially Ireland as a State has signed up to various treaties that say we should abolish the death penalty. So the State does not directly put anyone to death. But many Irish people impose a death penalty on people who cross them as if they can act with impunity. They seem to be beyond the reach of the law.

Why do we in reality tolerate the death penalty being imposed on our fellow citizens by others of our fellow citizens?

Link to Prime Time report on family living under threat of more assassinations

Can we not reclaim our freedom?
 
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Clanrickard

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Roy Collins was a victim of Ireland's continued toleration of the death penalty. His family is unusual but not unique in standing up proudly and having enough faith in our justice system to expect it would protect them.

Officially Ireland as a State has signed up to various treaties that say we should abolish the death penalty. So the State does not directly put anyone to death. But many Irish people impose a death penalty on people as if they can act with impunity. They seem to be beyond the reach of the law.

Why do we in reality tolerate the death penalty being imposed on our fellow citizens by others of our fellow citizens?

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Can we not reclaim our freedom?
The thread title and your post are misleading and frankly ridiculous.
 

He3

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The point is that we have allowed whole areas of our country to operate effectively outside the law. In those areas, and occasionally outside them, the death penalty is still in vogue.

While at a State level we do not execute criminals, many criminals are in effect free to execute at will. (The fact that some are caught, or more accurately some of their patsies who pull the trigger are caught, is beside the point - the perception they have is that they can kill with impunity, in other words without fear of sanction)

The death penalty is meted out regularly in Ireland. We are a small relatively homogenous country. We can stop this. When will we?

The official abolition of the death penalty at State level is sweet, but irrelevant. By analogy, suppose a state had abolished slavery, but in reality tolerated the keeping of slaves by its people in their private houses. Would you say slavery had been abolished in that country?

The death penalty remains to be abolished in Ireland.
 
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Sync

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Did we not vote in 2001 to get rid of the death penalty?

I don't follow your point here.
I think you need to hit yourself with a hammer and down a bottle of vodka to see the logic.
 

He3

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I think you need to hit yourself with a hammer and down a bottle of vodka to see the logic.
Did you not know that a family in Limerick is living under what amounts to a death sentence, with one of their sons already executed and another surviving an attempted assassination?

No vodka required Sync. No cocaine either.
 

Sync

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You don't understand that there's a difference between criminals threatening people and state sanctioned executions do you?
 

He3

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I have already commented on the difference.

What you are ignoring is the similarity.

Dead people.
 

Munion

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I am utterly lost. Are you saying that people murdering each other are basically state sanctioned executions?
 

He3

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I am utterly lost. Are you saying that people murdering each other are basically state sanctioned executions?
No. They are not state sanctioned, but they are state tolerated executions. If we as a society did not in effect tolerate the present situation we would be bearing down on the perpetrators so hard they would not feel free to kill whoever crosses them.

Do you really think that what we have at present is an acceptable level of violence?
 

ibis

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I have already commented on the difference.

What you are ignoring is the similarity.

Dead people.
So fatal accidents are also the same as the death penalty? And old age? After all, they both involve dead people, and the State appears to tolerate a lot of them.
 

He3

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So fatal accidents are also the same as the death penalty? And old age? After all, they both involve dead people.
Did you forget about intent, or just decide to be silly?
 

Sync

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I have already commented on the difference.

What you are ignoring is the similarity.

Dead people.
In HE3's world:

The state used to execute people
Criminals kill people

Criminal actions = State execution.

The state used to execute people
Cancer kills people

Cancer = State execution.
 

Cato

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Did you forget about intent, or just decide to be silly?
In fairness your premise that criminal murder is somehow the equivalent of judicial murder is 'silly'. The attempted analogy is torturous. You should have sought to make your point without butchering the normal meanings of words.
 

He3

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In HE3's world:

The state used to execute people
Criminals kill people

Criminal actions = State execution.

The state used to execute people
Cancer kills people

Cancer = State execution.
Pity you took to the hammer and the vodka.....
 

Sync

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In fairness your premise that criminal murder is somehow the equivalent of judicial murder is 'silly'. The attempted analogy is torturous. You should have sought to make your point without butchering the normal meanings of words.
Yeah you have to utterly ruin the word "Penalty" to interpret it as meaning "Passive acceptance"
 


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