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Assisted suicide no, abortion yes?


Fr.Ted Crilly

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Dec 7, 2012
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13,267


R

Ramps

Assisted suicide no, Abortion yes.

So the gutless one has decided that he'll allow for the murder of unborn babies if the mother is suicidal etc but at the same time refuses to allow terminally ill people, in immense pain, be assisted to end their suffering.

What is it with FG that they insist on inflicting the most pain on the most vulnerable in society?


Kenny will not legislate for assisted suicide - Political News | Irish & International Politics | The Irish Times - Wed, May 29, 2013
Can you imagine the reaction at the FG parliamentary party meeting were EK to say he would propose legislation to allow assisted-suicide, once he had guided abortion legislation thru' the Dail?!
 

LamportsEdge

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Could be an interesting new nickname on the political cards. 'Both Barrels Kenny'.
 

paulp

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May 5, 2007
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Assisted suicide no, Abortion yes.

So the gutless one has decided that he'll allow for the murder of unborn babies if the mother is suicidal etc but at the same time refuses to allow terminally ill people, in immense pain, be assisted to end their suffering.

What is it with FG that they insist on inflicting the most pain on the most vulnerable in society?


Kenny will not legislate for assisted suicide - Political News | Irish & International Politics | The Irish Times - Wed, May 29, 2013
Do you really think there would be popular support in Ireland for legislating for assisted suicide?
 

Radix

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Can you imagine the reaction at the FG parliamentary party meeting were EK to say he would propose legislation to allow assisted-suicide, once he had guided abortion legislation thru' the Dail?!


There is nothing stopping him from doing so right now.

Just think about it.

Laws brought in to say:

1. That if you are terminally ill and suicidal, you can get someone to give you a hand with killing yourself, the State won't mind.

2. That if you are pregnant and suicidal and would like your baby killed, the State will do the job for you.


Kenny will legislate for Scenario 2, but not for Scenario 1.

Is the man well?
 

Warrior of Destiny

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Sep 24, 2010
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I think it's both fair and compassionate to allow assited suicide where someone is terminally ill and clearly in distress, I mean we do put down other sentient creatures such as the family pet when they are in such conditions (I'm not trying to equate a dog or cat with a human so don't jump down my throat).

I also think the 'x' case should be implemented (although threat of suicide is still dubious grounds for abortion to me but if the people so wish it).

However abortion on demand and assisted suicide on demand should never be allowed on the basis that they are regressive policies.
 

The OD

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I'm for everything, including free beer for babies and meth for OAP's.....
 

Dame_Enda

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Our lives are our own. Unless others depend on us financially, we should have complete sovereignty over whether we live or die. If quality of life and independent living are not possible, then I would not want to live. Give this poor woman what she wants. We treat our pets with more humanity than we treat human beings who are suffering terminal illnesses.

No doubt the Church is again at the forefront of opposition to euthanasia as with abortion and gay marriage. But given the Church's long history of hypocrisy on the question of "thou shalt not kill" e.g. the Inquisition, calling Crusades in the Middle East/against European 'heretics' like the Cathars, and that the Vatican only abolished capital punishment around the 1950's, I hardly think it's in any position to oppose euthanasia with a straight face.
 
R

Ramps

There is nothing stopping him from doing so right now.

Just think about it.

Laws brought in to say:

1. That if you are terminally ill and suicidal, you can get someone to give you a hand with killing yourself, the State won't mind.

2. That if you are pregnant and suicidal and would like your baby killed, the State will do the job for you.


Kenny will legislate for Scenario 2, but not for Scenario 1.

Is the man well?
How would you define "terminally ill"? How would one describe in legislation what counts as "immense pain"?

It's not an easy thing to legislate for, and I'm quite sure that there would be great opposition to it; maybe not as great as that to abortion, but not far off.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Mar 8, 2005
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48,396
Assisted suicide no, Abortion yes.

So the gutless one has decided that he'll allow for the murder of unborn babies if the mother is suicidal etc but at the same time refuses to allow terminally ill people, in immense pain, be assisted to end their suffering.

What is it with FG that they insist on inflicting the most pain on the most vulnerable in society?


Kenny will not legislate for assisted suicide - Political News | Irish & International Politics | The Irish Times - Wed, May 29, 2013
He's also placed very restrictive conditions on the establishment that a pregnant woman is suicidal.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Our lives are our own. Unless others depend on us financially, we should have complete sovereignty over whether we live or die. If quality of life and independent living are not possible, then I would not want to live. Give this poor woman what she wants. We treat our pets with more humanity than we treat human beings who are suffering terminal illnesses.

No doubt the Church is again at the forefront of opposition to euthanasia as with abortion and gay marriage. But given the Church's long history of hypocrisy on the question of "thou shalt not kill" e.g. the Inquisition, calling Crusades in the Middle East/against European 'heretics' like the Cathars, and that the Vatican only abolished capital punishment around the 1950's, I hardly think it's in any position to oppose euthanasia with a straight face.
What about the situation of a terminally-ill parent, and a child or children waiting to get their hands on a substantial inheritance? All sorts of underhand moral blackmail could be exerted on the parent in that situation if such legislation existed, and that's why I'd always be opposed to it.
 

Dame_Enda

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What about the situation of a terminally-ill parent, and a child or children waiting to get their hands on a substantial inheritance? All sorts of underhand moral blackmail could be exerted on the parent in that situation if such legislation existed, and that's why I'd always be opposed to it.
At the end of the day it is the person's decision themselves. If you are terminally ill you are going to die anyway. It is better that someone pass away quietly than having to resort to potentially agonising methods of suicide. The experts in Switzerland would know how to do it in a humane way.

I think it would be an abomination to treat a loving partner who is only doing what his partner wants like a danger to society and in the same league as a murderer and locked up for life. Yet our law as presently stands would do that.

In that context would you at least agree to change the law to distinguish between the gravity of the offence of assisted-suicide as compared to murder?
 

RahenyFG

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Jun 17, 2010
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Assisted suicide no, Abortion yes.

So the gutless one has decided that he'll allow for the murder of unborn babies if the mother is suicidal etc but at the same time refuses to allow terminally ill people, in immense pain, be assisted to end their suffering.

What is it with FG that they insist on inflicting the most pain on the most vulnerable in society?


Kenny will not legislate for assisted suicide - Political News | Irish & International Politics | The Irish Times - Wed, May 29, 2013
Good point, I never thought of it that way.

I'm anti abortion by the way.
 

Sister Mercedes

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Dec 19, 2011
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There ought to be - the issue is more clear-cut than that of abortion.
I think assisted suicide is a more complicated issue. Say, someone in a nursing home where the fees are reducing their assets, feeling obligated to top themselves to protect their kids inheritance.
 

Mercurial

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I think assisted suicide is a more complicated issue. Say, someone in a nursing home where the fees are reducing their assets, feeling obligated to top themselves to protect their kids inheritance.
Suppose for the sake of argument that I am in a nursing home and I decide that I would like to kill myself so that I can leave more inheritance to my children, but I need help in doing so. What should happen to someone who assists me?
 
R

Ramps

Suppose for the sake of argument that I am in a nursing home and I decide that I would like to kill myself so that I can leave more inheritance to my children, but I need help in doing so. What should happen to someone who assists me?
That's the problem though, innit?

It's easy to start off with a strict set of conditions that must be met in order for AS to be lawful; there are so many grey areas I'm not sure that one could restrict it to cases such as the one of the poor lady in the news au moment.
 

Aindriu

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Suppose for the sake of argument that I am in a nursing home and I decide that I would like to kill myself so that I can leave more inheritance to my children, but I need help in doing so. What should happen to someone who assists me?
Nothing. Your life is yours and yours alone. It is nothing to do with any God squad or politician if you have made a cognitive decision to end your life but need assistance to do so.

I am in constant pain every day. Once I reach a point where no levels of medication will control it so my quality of life suffers greatly I will make the choice to leave the world. My family know this and fully support me.
 

Mercurial

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That's the problem though, innit?

It's easy to start off with a strict set of conditions that must be met in order for AS to be lawful; there are so many grey areas I'm not sure that one could restrict it to cases such as the one of the poor lady in the news au moment.
Should we necessarily want to restrict it to such cases? In the case I described a person (who by stipulation is mentally competent) has decided to end their life because they would prefer to be able to leave more money to their children. We might prefer it if people didn't make those kinds of decisions, but why should we think we would have the right to prevent them from making those kinds of decisions?
 

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