At last, some numbers on unification

death or glory

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No one was concerned about the views of six county Catholics at partition.

They still don't give a tinker's cuss what six county Catholics views on partition are.

We'll bring unification about ourselves, and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.
Well I do hope you find another way other than terrorism.
Such a counterproductive strategy and isn't it ironic that the reason there will never be a United Ireland is because of Reb terrorism.
 


Talk Back

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Well I do hope you find another way other than terrorism.
Such a counterproductive strategy and isn't it ironic that the reason there will never be a United Ireland is because of Reb terrorism.
Your predictions are as useless as a weather mans - we have already proven that.

Tell us all again about the hard border fool - I need a laugh.
 

Barroso

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The pension side of things will have to be done with a lump sum, and then converted to euro. All these sorts of deals are done by civil servants, and civil servant pensions go to the top of the list.

When the real worry is 35% of kids leaving school young, which explains a lot.
This is a very interesting figure indeed. I'd like to see the geographical breakdown.
I wonder if it is heavily concentrated in the post-industrial heartland of the shipyards and the linen industries.
 

Barroso

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Funny how " demographic.changes " is viewed as rightwing Replacement Theory everywhere other thsn Ireland.
Replacement is what happened from the 16th to early 20th centuries.
Perhaps you might consider the demographic changes that happened in Rhodesia when it became Zimbabwe, and in Algeria when it became independent from France. This would give you a truer picture of what has been happening in the 6 cos. over the last 80 years. The colony has been in crisis for many decades, and has been losing numbers. This happened before, in the 18th century - but on that occasion the trend was reversed in the wake of the Act of Union with GB. It's not likely to happen this time, though.
 

McTell

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No
Lots of us crowded into belfast and derry after 1750, but these are recent, I don't think anyone can say their family was living on the same patch of land in belfast in 1700?

This is why it all has to be looking forward. We know there was a pile of bones and a lake of tears in the past.

I don't want to see the nordies all standing round w*nking into that lake for the next 100 years. Death is not a turn-on for the rest of us, sorry bout that. If you want us to pay the bills you can drop all that cr*p.
 

Estragon

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Well I do hope you find another way other than terrorism.
Such a counterproductive strategy and isn't it ironic that the reason there will never be a United Ireland is because of Reb terrorism.
We're riding our way to reunification. As Bobby Sands so eloquently put it, our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
 

Barroso

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Lots of us crowded into belfast and derry after 1750, but these are recent, I don't think anyone can say their family was living on the same patch of land in belfast in 1700?

This is why it all has to be looking forward. We know there was a pile of bones and a lake of tears in the past.

I don't want to see the nordies all standing round w*nking into that lake for the next 100 years. Death is not a turn-on for the rest of us, sorry bout that. If you want us to pay the bills you can drop all that cr*p.
It's not widely known, but during the second half of the 19th century, during the worst period of emigration the country has ever known, there was high immigration into Ireland from our neighbouring island. This left our cities with a around 10% English and Scottish by 1901, with the number being slightly higher in Ulster, and reaching its highest in Belfast. Much of this immigration would have been in the administrative, financial and industrial sectors, and was tied strongly to the success of the British Empire then at its height.
I suspect that this most recent phase of immigration with its close personal and economic ties to GB is in part what led to the vehemence of the Orange/protestant response to home rule and indepenence.
 

death or glory

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We're riding our way to reunification. As Bobby Sands so eloquently put it, our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Bobby spread a lot of the brown stuff and not all of it over the walls of his cell.
Our children have been laughing at Bobby's dieting and toilet training ever since we celebrated his death.
 

2lazy

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Armed Struggle - result: GFA

GFA - result: Withdrawal Agreement Bill: The Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland

WA Bill: - result border down the sea where it belongs

United Ireland inevitable now, no unionist or Stormont veto
 
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McTell

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No
///

United Ireland inevitable now, no unionist or Stormont veto

What matters is what happens beyond unity.

A lot of pro-unity guys seem to think that on U-day the clouds are going to blow away, and god will shower them with money and gifts, and all their illnesses will be cured. But they will be looking at the same bare walls for some time to come.

So as a kinda neutral mexicant who wants it to go well, or not at all, could you all please start planning for the "other side" as well as getting to unity.

If you don't, then the planning will be done in brussels and dublin by people who have mostly never been to the 6 counties. A 32-county state will not be run from west belfast.

In 1922 a lot of us in the south thought freedom, such as it was, would cost us less, but it cost much more and the economy was sickly until the 1960s. We don't want that kind of thing all over again.
 

Estragon

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Bobby spread a lot of the brown stuff and not all of it over the walls of his cell.
Our children have been laughing at Bobby's dieting and toilet training ever since we celebrated his death.
I'd say the contrast in sentiments between ourselves say a lot about what is driving the respective agendas here.

You're driven by the past, pettiness, hatred, bitterness, meaness and resentment.

I'm driven by the future, love, equanimity, positivity and a desire to see all in Ireland prosper.

And that's about as neat a summary of how Irish nationalism differs from unionism as you'll ever get.
 

McTell

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No
It's not even nationalism, as we have to go beyond that. Our nationalism was an invention of the late 1800s, and normal at the time.

If we are inclusive now even of chinese-origin people, then the new nationalism has to be based on a wide-angle "you /we are living on the island".

Nobody is arguing that after U-day we will launch a pogrom of all people who don't have a gaelic surname. Nobody is going to get any hand-outs of free land belonging to "colonists". Nobody will get brownie points for flying the tricolour over an orange hall. Nobody will be paid a pension for "fighting for the reconquest of ulster".

But this is my point - we are getting there on the numbers it will cost, but nobody is saying much about U-day plus 30. Why not, if it's such a brilliant idea?
 

2lazy

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It's not even nationalism, as we have to go beyond that. Our nationalism was an invention of the late 1800s, and normal at the time.

If we are inclusive now even of chinese-origin people, then the new nationalism has to be based on a wide-angle "you /we are living on the island".

Nobody is arguing that after U-day we will launch a pogrom of all people who don't have a gaelic surname. Nobody is going to get any hand-outs of free land belonging to "colonists". Nobody will get brownie points for flying the tricolour over an orange hall. Nobody will be paid a pension for "fighting for the reconquest of ulster".

But this is my point - we are getting there on the numbers it will cost, but nobody is saying much about U-day plus 30. Why not, if it's such a brilliant idea?

It will be like a balloon deflating - the tension of a polarized political climate based on resentment and a growing siege mentality will dissipate quite quickly leaving room for a normal functioning region - in short a real peace.
The most volatile time will be in the lead up to the border poll, however a sizable number of the "unionist" population will realize that like Scotland if BP 1 does not favour unity another will be coming down the road 10 years later or less - this I imagine would push some towards "pulling the plaster" now and getting on with it.
The elephant in the room now is Brexit - how that pans out will drive everything from here on, Scotland are likely to go leaving NI in a reduced UK and very much on the periphery - long term economic growth will be found to the south not to the east - in short it will just make economic sense been in the EU as opposed to a reduced UK.
 

AhNowStop

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There is a large subgroup within the middle and first group who are in favour of Irish unity only as long as there is Unionist resistance. If that Unionist resistance was to vaporise tomorrow, then irish unity would be of no value to those diehard "republicans" who only want it to pyss of the prods.
thats infantile thinking and I dont see any examples of it but even if it were true, there would be many more who would do the exact opposite .. i.e. They would only vote for a UI if unionist resistance did disappear and you can see those exact type of people posting on here

but in general re your post ... do you really think some folk would want a UI "just" to p1ss off prods? ..... Na, thats just nuts
 

Eire1976

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What matters is what happens beyond unity.

A lot of pro-unity guys seem to think that on U-day the clouds are going to blow away, and god will shower them with money and gifts, and all their illnesses will be cured. But they will be looking at the same bare walls for some time to come.

So as a kinda neutral mexicant who wants it to go well, or not at all, could you all please start planning for the "other side" as well as getting to unity.

If you don't, then the planning will be done in brussels and dublin by people who have mostly never been to the 6 counties. A 32-county state will not be run from west belfast.

In 1922 a lot of us in the south thought freedom, such as it was, would cost us less, but it cost much more and the economy was sickly until the 1960s. We don't want that kind of thing all over again.
Very few think that it'll be all positive. We may very well have to put down a Loyalist putsch.

Once that's done, and the tail is firmly commanded by the dog again, things will just go back to normal.
 

Levellers

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"The collapse of the once-dynamic Northern Irish economy versus that of the Republic is stunning. Having been a fraction of the North’s at independence, the Republic’s industrial output is now far greater than that of Northern Ireland. Exports of goods and services from the Republic are €282.4bn; total exports from the North stand at a paltry €10.1bn. This obviously reflects the investment of multinationals, but it also underscores just how far ahead is the Republic’s industrial base. Producing close to 30 times more exports highlights a vast difference in the globalisation of business."

Subscribe to read | Financial Times
 

AhNowStop

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This is a very interesting figure indeed. I'd like to see the geographical breakdown.
I wonder if it is heavily concentrated in the post-industrial heartland of the shipyards and the linen industries.
No doubt about that ... Unionism made sure "jobs for the boys" were always handed out to their own so a lot of these areas didnt need to bother with education as wee billy could simply follow his Da & uncles into their places of work ...

Now that these industries have died and are dying away they are left with the remnants of an unrealistic ideology where education wasnt needed but now is ... its just another area where unionism is still living in the past
 

AhNowStop

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It's not widely known, but during the second half of the 19th century, during the worst period of emigration the country has ever known, there was high immigration into Ireland from our neighbouring island. This left our cities with a around 10% English and Scottish by 1901, with the number being slightly higher in Ulster, and reaching its highest in Belfast. Much of this immigration would have been in the administrative, financial and industrial sectors, and was tied strongly to the success of the British Empire then at its height.
I suspect that this most recent phase of immigration with its close personal and economic ties to GB is in part what led to the vehemence of the Orange/protestant response to home rule and indepenence.
Thats a very interesting theory .. Could you recommend any reading on it ?
 

AhNowStop

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What matters is what happens beyond unity.

A lot of pro-unity guys seem to think that on U-day the clouds are going to blow away, and god will shower them with money and gifts, and all their illnesses will be cured. But they will be looking at the same bare walls for some time to come.

So as a kinda neutral mexicant who wants it to go well, or not at all, could you all please start planning for the "other side" as well as getting to unity.

If you don't, then the planning will be done in brussels and dublin by people who have mostly never been to the 6 counties. A 32-county state will not be run from west belfast.

In 1922 a lot of us in the south thought freedom, such as it was, would cost us less, but it cost much more and the economy was sickly until the 1960s. We don't want that kind of thing all over again.
oh deary me, you have an unbelievably childishly naive & simplistic view of Northern Nationalists and why we aspire to a UI ... it may be your twisted wish that we're all sitting here waiting for revenge or some such silly nonsense but Im afraid you couldnt be more wrong ... or else you are simply trolling of course..

btw, do you wish Ireland was still under British rule ? .. or maybe still in the British commonwealth ? .. what is your bit in bold getting at ?
 


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