At PAC - Things we just learned about the state of the Economy ..

Lumpy Talbot

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Borrow more and cheaper. Now there is a banner we can all get around. We have turned a corner.

But the only problem is that central banks themselves are warning that inflation is likely to be on the rise over the next few years. But then they may be just talking down the economy and should probably commit suicide....

When you think about it this is exactly how thousands of people ended up bankrupt and in default on mortgages. Assuming that they should be the ballsy people and borrowing as much as possible because of course the loan would only get cheaper and the asset underneath would always rise.

What could possibly go wrong?

Interest rates and a return of inflationary pressures for a start. I wonder is there a cupboard at the Dept of Finance once again filling up with bad news that no one wants to look at.
 


Mad as Fish

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We do indeed, but it can't really be described as a "rainy day fund" in the State's accounts.

(Although if a financial emergency arose, I'm sure it would be raided, plundered and ransacked by the government without hesitation or compunction!)
Exactly so, at what level of precipitation do we decide to break open the piggy bank.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Exactly so, at what level of precipitation do we decide to break open the piggy bank.
Brian Lenihan decided it was when the National Pension Reserve Fund had 27 billion euro in it and it was the 17th largest sovereign fund in the world.

Bear in mind that money was intended to be built up to cover pension shortfalls which are now not covered. As long as the banks and their bondholders are alright though, that was the main thing.

Not only that but he added all the halfpennies from the University pension funds to that 27 billion and also blew that lot out the door on the banks and their bondholders also. Which meant that University pension liabilities are now on the Oireachtas bill.

Which we are now borrowing to cover.
 

Sync

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And we'll have more centagenarians coming on line as each year goes by. More and more people needing more pension money, more services, more health care, more respite. The point of the pension fund is to increase it, not use it for anything other than intended.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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And we'll have more centagenarians coming on line as each year goes by. More and more people needing more pension money, more services, more health care, more respite. The point of the pension fund is to increase it, not use it for anything other than intended.
Exactly. And then you had the Prisoner of Enda (Joan Burton) a few years back saying the government were going to set up a compulsory pension scheme that people would have to pay into by income deduction. Neatly forgetting that national insurance was already being deducted on that basis so a double taxation regime was being proposed.

And here is the killer part. If that system was set up and there was 20 or 40 billion in it to cover pension costs in an ageing population in ten or twenty years time how long do you think it would take an Irish Minister for Finance to raid it?

It took Lenihan mere moments in time to convert the NPRF into a 'Special Purpose Vehicle'. Would you trust an Irish Finance Minister of whatever stripe to leave such a cash mountain alone?

Like f*ck would they.
 

hammer

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Fair play to everyone that has made provision for their old age.

It is a difficult thing to do and requires a lot of sacrafice.

Depending on the State could end in tears for a lot of us.

Firstly will the funds be there and secondly we may need to keep working until 70+
 

Voluntary

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Fair play to everyone that has made provision for their old age.

It is a difficult thing to do and requires a lot of sacrafice.

Depending on the State could end in tears for a lot of us.

Firstly will the funds be there and secondly we may need to keep working until 70+
The first rule of investment - diversification, never put all the eggs into one basket.
So having a private pension in mind, a smart move would be NOT TO put any money in the country you live in. If the State goes bust then having investments made locally, they'll be most likely worthless so you may be left with no State support and no private pension.
The same rule applies to investing in stock of the company you work for. When the bad days come then you not only lose your job, but at the same time you loose your investment.
 

hammer

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I put all my eggs in one basket. Property.

From the late 80s until now.

The wisest decision I ever made.

Especially when the maximum mortgage terms in those days was 20 years.

Always thought it was crazy putting money into a pension in my 20s that I could NOT get my hands on until I was 65 ( didn`t trust brokers either )

There were great investment opportunities in the 80s / 90s.

S23 was a particularly impressive tax relief.
 

Mushroom

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And we'll have more centagenarians coming on line as each year goes by. More and more people needing more pension money, more services, more health care, more respite. The point of the pension fund is to increase it, not use it for anything other than intended.
On a side issue, I want to see the Centenarians' Bounty* slashed.

The 2017 budget provides €1.1 million so an estimated 430 lucky (?) buggers can get a tax free bonus of €2.5k each. Of these, an estimated 200 will be living overseas.

It's absurd to be throwing €2,540 at OAPs who can't enjoy it. Give them the Mickey Dee letter, a bottle of Irish whiskey and a bunch of roses instead; all going well, they'll immediately drink the botttle of whiskey, promptly die of liver failure and the roses can be used as a funeral bouquet. It's called joined-up thinking.


"You will receive €2,540 and a congratulatory letter signed by the President on your 100th birthday. You will also get a commemorative coin and a congratulatory letter from the President on your 101st and subsequent birthdays."
 

bokuden

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Five things we learned about the economy at the PAC



So PIE'ers, thoughts? Anything there that is a revelation OR is it all "Nothing to see here folks, move along"?

All tickity boo on the good ship Ireland PLC so???

Separate article re the empty rainy day fund - The Dept of Finance are being pretty sharp with the use of the word ZERO when it comes to rainy day fund.

PAC told Government's 'rainy day fund' is empty

They're ll just whingers talking down the economy. Vote Fg. Keep the recovery going... er...Oh look over there, the Gards are up to something.
 

bokuden

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I put all my eggs in one basket. Property.

From the late 80s until now.

The wisest decision I ever made.

Especially when the maximum mortgage terms in those days was 20 years.

Always thought it was crazy putting money into a pension in my 20s that I could NOT get my hands on until I was 65 ( didn`t trust brokers either )

There were great investment opportunities in the 80s / 90s.

S23 was a particularly impressive tax relief.
People like you are responsible for families getting flung into industrial estates for housing. Still, as long as your pension pot goes up, eh?
 

Mushroom

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They're ll just whingers talking down the economy. Vote Fg. Keep the recovery going...
Clever chap. If you have a better idea, then why not scribble it down?

Obviously, you appearing to exist on the very margins of intelligent thought, you're unlikely to draw up a particularly impressive proposal, but it would be rather interesting to see what that brain of yours could churn out if put to the test.

Oh and why not learn to spell "Guards" correctly while you're at it? (I accept that "Garda Siochana" lies far beyond your spelling abilities.)
 

Watcher2

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I put all my eggs in one basket. Property.

From the late 80s until now.

The wisest decision I ever made.

Especially when the maximum mortgage terms in those days was 20 years.

Always thought it was crazy putting money into a pension in my 20s that I could NOT get my hands on until I was 65 ( didn`t trust brokers either )

There were great investment opportunities in the 80s / 90s.

S23 was a particularly impressive tax relief.
It was, while it served its purpose. It was way over extended. Should have eliminated it at the end of the 90's. It added to the toxicity of the property market in the end.
 

bokuden

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hammer

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Truth. Deal with it. It explains why you support FG housing policy.
Truth in your SF IRA head :)

What about all the people that come to Ireland to work and require accommodation ?

What about all those that never want to own property but are happy to rent ?
 

bokuden

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Truth in your SF IRA head :)

What about all the people that come to Ireland to work and require accommodation ?

What about all those that never want to own property but are happy to rent ?
I have never supported the IRA. More smear from FGers. I also have not supported or defended policies that threw six hundred families into homelessness from march to may, and pushed up the price of property by 2,000 euro a month. Unlike you. Hope you feel good about that.
 

Mushroom

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I have never supported the IRA. More smear from FGers. I also have not supported or defended policies that threw six hundred families into homelessness from march to may, and pushed up the price of property by 2,000 euro a month. Unlike you. Hope you feel good about that.
So tell us your solution. Feel free to use a crayon, and don't worry too much about spellings; in this case, it's your thoughts that interest me rather than your literary and presentational skills.
 


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