Austerity, a lost decade, and perspective

farnaby

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We all know that nothing has changed for ordinary people in Ireland, post-2008.
Really? Well my agegroup which was trapped in negative equity hell for that period are doing better not just thanks to higher property prices. I personally had 3 job changes with 4 pay rises over the decade on the back of a philosophy degree so the whole no prospects in Ireland thing doesn't resonate, shall we say. The widespread prevalence of faster shinier more powerful personal tech devices and the expertise on show about sunny holiday destinations says people are well able to afford luxuries unthinkable to previous generations.

Austerity was not a "difficult decision" taken in the absence of other options - it was a deliberate targeting of the poor, elderly, students, disabled and others dependent on public services to survive, perpetrated by successive establishment-party coalitions.
Look, politicians try to please everyone and pay them as many as they can for votes, including those groups you mention. The cuts that were made were electoral suicide for large numbers of FFers (thankfully). Unfortunately if govt spending has to be cut, it obviously affects those who in need of that spending.

2) How do party supporters of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Labour and the Greens justify their support of their parties in hindsight, knowing what they did to us over the last decade or more?
Not applicable to this site, most party members/hacks have long departed.

3) In light of their continuing support for these parties, and thus endorsement of their involvement in current and future social destruction, would individuals of these parties like to explain why they think the generation under them should have a lesser standard of living than they themselves have had/are enjoying?
I'm with you on the intergenerational conflict but there's a global aspect to that, let's not pretend it's unique to Ireland when automation, FIRE economies and frankly rent-seeking are common western capitalist phenomena.
 


Eventualities

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by the way generational stuff is my little niche. when you say our generation, what specific age rage do you mean?
I'm at the mid-country of the 25-35 age range.
 

Eventualities

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they cater to every whim of the lower classes, but they persecute the middle classes
Ah, yeah, the poor middle-classes, with their stable, steady jobs, roofs already over their heads.
 

xennial

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No
Ah, yeah, the poor middle-classes, with their stable, steady jobs, roofs already over their heads.
this isn't what it used to be and is heavily generationally biased. theyre lucky cos theyll inherit, but their lives under their own steam in many ways would be less enfranchised than those of the generational lowers
 

Eventualities

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Really? Well my agegroup which was trapped in negative equity hell for that period are doing better not just thanks to higher property prices. I personally had 3 job changes with 4 pay rises over the decade on the back of a philosophy degree so the whole no prospects in Ireland thing doesn't resonate, shall we say. The widespread prevalence of faster shinier more powerful personal tech devices and the expertise on show about sunny holiday destinations says people are well able to afford luxuries unthinkable to previous generations.
Good for you. Maybe let the ladder down a little and bring some younger people with you as you're doing so well. I also object to luxuries among my generation - I only managed to scrape together half a weekend break in Catalonia with the ball and chain last year after being landlocked for nine years.

Look, politicians try to please everyone and pay them as many as they can for votes, including those groups you mention. The cuts that were made were electoral suicide for large numbers of FFers (thankfully). Unfortunately if govt spending has to be cut, it obviously affects those who in need of that spending.
Uh, or you could not target gov't spending and tell the rich to fend for themselves?

Not applicable to this site, most party members/hacks have long departed.
Dunno about that...

I'm with you on the intergenerational conflict but there's a global aspect to that, let's not pretend it's unique to Ireland when automation, FIRE economies and frankly rent-seeking are common western capitalist phenomena.
It's keenly felt in Ireland in the current climate.
 

Eventualities

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this isn't what it used to be and is heavily generationally biased. theyre lucky cos theyll inherit, but their lives under their own steam in many ways would be less enfranchised than those of the generational lowers
They have money, property and cultural influence that our generation can only dream of.
 

xennial

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No
They have money, property and cultural influence that our generation can only dream of.
yes, but it's not as clear cut as that. your enemies are essentially your parents and their friends. No or very few xennials have any social influence or money or whatever. We're broadly the same as your cohort in that respect.

the babyboomers are my parents and their friends too.

2 things I will say: you millennials were really awful when you started to come up back in the early 00s. My cohort was only a little older and we were kind of appalled by you guys and and what your parents were letting you do. You were very crass and brash and ************************************g fixated on xbox and jackass.

Also your millennial generation is HUGE in number, so at least you have that going for you in a way the xennials and x-ers dont.

We have similar enemies but unless we join up and rape the boomers, theyll just die never having been punished for what theyve done.
 

HarshBuzz

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I'd like to see what the OP regards as a realistic alternative government that would effectively tackle all these issues?
 

Analyzer

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The Republic of Ireland is now set to become a much harsher cold and atomized place- I think that it is very possible that Fine Gael will get an absolute majority in the next general election after which they will go full on Thatcherite.
No. Thatcher actually tried to operate a free market.

FG prefer cronyism, socialism for the rich, debt write downs for chums, etc....

Even Thatcher had standards.

Phoney Gael have Denis the Menace.
 

shiel

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The OP is a bit of a rant and lacks perspective.

This country has a very high level of per capita income relative to the rest of the world.

That is despite the fact that it suffered a spectacular bankruptcy in 2010.

I posted the following on another thread but it is relevant here.

The reason the country went bankrupt was that one political grouping had been in virtually unchallenged power and had been re-elected at successive elections for years.

The power went to their heads and they made reckless decisions which bankrupt the country.

The austerity was caused, therefore, by the virtually unchallenged decisions of those at the head of government, financial institutions etc in the pre-2009 period.

The actions of those powerful people ended up with a 50bn euro government deficit and an 85bn euro bailout in 2010.

Blaming everyone else for the austerity is a load of ************************e.

But that is what the same Irish media as cheer led the pre-2009 decisions which bankrupted the country did.

The OP is part of that agenda.

I should stress that I am not making a partisan party political point.

If any other political grouping had been in virtually unchallenged power and been re-elected at successive elections for years the power might have gone to their heads too.

But we could be Greece or Italy or God forbid Venezuela.

What we need to be careful about is that we do not repeat the sins of the pre-2009 period ever again.
 

myrak

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Why No interest or comment on the banker trials currently going on..the gentlemen concerned must not be able to believe their luck that the populace, who pay the price,are being so easily distracted.
 

Analyzer

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Some people never endured any hardship.

In fact they got bailed out, by taxpayers.
They virtue signalled on the taxpayer funded media.
They talked about solidarity and "meitheal" while objecting to have largesse for themselves.
Some have asked "and how are you coping with the recession" whilst being paid 250 K plus for talking nonsense.
 

venusian

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"................ We all know that nothing has changed for ordinary people in Ireland, post-2008. Nothing ever gets better on a day-to-day basis, work not only doesn't pay but often presents no path of progression, X "

X marks the spot where I stopped reading the above load of onanistic tripe.

Did anyone manage to go further? And if so, did Doofus manage to make any quasi-intelligent, valid or even mildly interesting points?
Yes he made some very intelligent points and I would recommend reading his post.
 

venusian

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Why No interest or comment on the banker trials currently going on..the gentlemen concerned must not be able to believe their luck that the populace, who pay the price,are being so easily distracted.
One of the reasons is the total lack of any decent investigative reportage due to most of the mainstream media being owned by FG's owner D O'Bease !
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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Thatcher wanted to see working people being more successful (wealth ownership, lifestyle, reproductive success, health, vehicle ownership, consumption levels ) than the unemployed.

And she was successful by this measure.

Politicians in Ireland, North and South, have largely failed on this test.
 

xennial

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No
The OP is a bit of a rant and lacks perspective.

This country has a very high level of per capita income relative to the rest of the world.

That is despite the fact that it suffered a spectacular bankruptcy in 2010.

I posted the following on another thread but it is relevant here.

The reason the country went bankrupt was that one political grouping had been in virtually unchallenged power and had been re-elected at successive elections for years.

The power went to their heads and they made reckless decisions which bankrupt the country.

The austerity was caused, therefore, by the virtually unchallenged decisions of those at the head of government, financial institutions etc in the pre-2009 period.

The actions of those powerful people ended up with a 50bn euro government deficit and an 85bn euro bailout in 2010.

Blaming everyone else for the austerity is a load of ************************e.

But that is what the same Irish media as cheer led the pre-2009 decisions which bankrupted the country did.

The OP is part of that agenda.

I should stress that I am not making a partisan party political point.

If any other political grouping had been in virtually unchallenged power and been re-elected at successive elections for years the power might have gone to their heads too.

But we could be Greece or Italy or God forbid Venezuela.

What we need to be careful about is that we do not repeat the sins of the pre-2009 period ever again.
greece and italy are in the ************************s, but they have redeeming aspects too and overall not much worse if at all than ireland.
 

xennial

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No
Thatcher wanted to see working people being more successful (wealth ownership, lifestyle, reproductive success, health, vehicle ownership, consumption levels ) than the unemployed.

And she was successful by this measure.

Politicians in Ireland, North and South, have largely failed on this test.
the cost of this was huge and one would argue penniless uk of the 70s wasnt so bad overall compared to decline of that nation ever since. Im actually a bit of a britophile, so ive no joy in noting how ************************ the uk is these days...
 

HarshBuzz

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greece and italy are in the ************************s, but they have redeeming aspects too and overall not much worse if at all than ireland.
Check their unemployment numbers vs ours and see do you still agree.
 


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