Australia: as Pedophilia Pay-Outs mount the Catholic Church looks at Charging its Schools Rent

Old Mr Grouser

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The Roman Catholic Church in Australia has money problems.

A few months ago the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse revealed that there had been nearly 4500 claims of child sexual abuse gainst that church over the past 35 years and that so far the church has paid out nearly AU$280 million in compensation.

It is perhaps because of this that some dioceses are struggling to "sustain financial viability for their pastoral works".

Now an internal document, produced last month for the 11 different Catholic education offices in the State of New South Wales has been leaked to the media; some dioceses are thinking of charging their schools rent.

Last year an internal report for New South Wales's Catholic bishops stated that by not charging rent NSW dioceses and parishes were providing a subsidy to their schools "conservatively to be estimated in the range of circa AU$19 million to AU$28 million per annum."

Furore over proposal to charge Catholic schools rent | Bega District News


Could a similar situation arise in Ireland?

There are some situations where it can be argued that the Catholic institution does not own a particular piece of land in its own right but only as the as a trustee, the beneficial owner being the local catholic community.
 
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D

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Who pays the property taxes on said particular piece of land?
 

StarryPlough01

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Catholic schools are private with state and federal government funding.


New South Wales -
Furore over proposal to charge Catholic schools rent

Catholic authorities in NSW receive close to $2.5 billion a year in education funding from federal and state governments, which goes towards the running of 545 Catholic diocesan schools, accounting for 230,000 students statewide.

The schools come under the individual administration of the state's 11 Catholic dioceses, meaning decisions on school rental fall to individual bishops.
Furore over proposal to charge Catholic schools rent | Bega District News

But it said schools had to comply with a recently strengthened section 83C of the NSW Education Act, which specifies that funds granted for educational purposes must be used to support school education, and with similar federal safeguards.
 

StarryPlough01

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redsaint

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I worked in Aussie for 20 years, and was told while living there that the Catholic Church are one of the biggest landowners in that beautiful Country.
 

Dimples 77

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The Roman Catholic Church in Australia has money problems.

A few months ago the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse revealed that there had been nearly 4500 claims of child sexual abuse gainst that church over the past 35 years and that so far the church has paid out nearly AU$280 million in compensation.

It is perhaps because of this that some dioceses are struggling to "sustain financial viability for their pastoral works".

Now an internal document, produced last month for the 11 different Catholic education offices in the State of New South Wales has been leaked to the media; some dioceses are thinking of charging their schools rent.

Last year an internal report for New South Wales's Catholic bishops stated that by not charging rent NSW dioceses and parishes were providing a subsidy to their schools "conservatively to be estimated in the range of circa AU$19 million to AU$28 million per annum."

Furore over proposal to charge Catholic schools rent | Bega District News


Could a similar situation arise in Ireland?

There are some situations where it can be argued that the Catholic institution does not own a particular piece of land in its own right but only as the as a trustee, the beneficial owner being the local catholic community.

So the RC Church authorities hope to be able to get their schools to pay rent, so that there are 2 outcomes:

1. Those RC Church authorities would end up with rental income to use either to pay compo to abuse victims or to pay for "pastoral works".

2. The schools could then include the rent that they pay as one of the education costs that they look to the 2 levels of Aussie government to fund.

It sounds like a sweet deal for the RC Church authorities. Taxpayer money gets funnelled through to them, to help pay the compo that they are liable for.

As for "by not charging rent NSW dioceses and parishes were providing a subsidy to their schools "conservatively to be estimated in the range of circa AU$19 million to AU$28 million per annum" that's really too bad. It's very strange that they've only come up with this concept of charging rent to their schools now that they have ended up facing massive compo payouts.

I wonder if they'll argue that they are owed money for this supposed rent for all of the decades during which they chose not to charge rent, and that the Aussie governments should now fund those "rent arrears" that the schools will now be responsible for relating to those decades?
 

Dimples 77

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Catholic church looks at charging its schools rent, as payments mount to victims of child sexual abuse

The initiative is encountering resistance from some Catholic educators, who fear such a plan risks diverting a portion of government funds intended for Catholic schooling into the administrative coffers of the church.

… Any decision to proceed would set a new precedent, generating potentially millions of dollars for diocesan funds.

That's a fair point, unless the Aussie governments were willing to add a brand new amount on top of previous funding to now cover those alleged rents.

I can't see that happening, so if the amount of funding is fixed then the schools would have to choose between providing the same amount of education as in the past and paying these new rents. I'd say that the rent would have to be paid first, so the amount of education would suffer.
 

Andrew49

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The Roman Catholic Church in Australia has money problems.

A few months ago the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse revealed that there had been nearly 4500 claims of child sexual abuse gainst that church over the past 35 years and that so far the church has paid out nearly AU$280 million in compensation.

It is perhaps because of this that some dioceses are struggling to "sustain financial viability for their pastoral works".

Now an internal document, produced last month for the 11 different Catholic education offices in the State of New South Wales has been leaked to the media; some dioceses are thinking of charging their schools rent.

Last year an internal report for New South Wales's Catholic bishops stated that by not charging rent NSW dioceses and parishes were providing a subsidy to their schools "conservatively to be estimated in the range of circa AU$19 million to AU$28 million per annum."

Furore over proposal to charge Catholic schools rent | Bega District News


Could a similar situation arise in Ireland?

There are some situations where it can be argued that the Catholic institution does not own a particular piece of land in its own right but only as the as a trustee, the beneficial owner being the local catholic community.
In America, to prevent having to sell-off properties/assets in order to pay abuse victims, the US Catholic Church managed to get a $400million loan from Allied Irish Bank. Isn't there an equivalent institution there?
 

Dimples 77

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In America, to prevent having to sell-off properties/assets in order to pay abuse victims, the US Catholic Church managed to get a $400million loan from Allied Irish Bank. Isn't there an equivalent institution there?
But they'll have to pay interest on that loan.

The Aussie RCs are obviously cuter hoors and have devised this way to try to get Bruce Taxpayer to pay for the cost of the compo.
 

StarryPlough01

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But they'll have to pay interest on that loan.

The Aussie RCs are obviously cuter hoors and have devised this way to try to get Bruce Taxpayer to pay for the cost of the compo.
It is a scam. I think the secular Oz government fund all denominations, including alternative schools.

If I were a parent, I would be concerned about the church raising school fees. If they did that, I would withdraw my child/ren at primary level and send them to a state school. It would be a difficult choice for me at secondary level, as I feel it would be vastly disruptive for my child's education, peer friendships ... It would put parents who are already struggling to give their kids a private education under considerable financial stress.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I worked in Aussie for 20 years, and was told while living there that the Catholic Church are one of the biggest landowners in that beautiful Country.
Wouldn't surprise me at all. It has been in the business of converting donations into investment in land and property for about 14 centuries.

It always raises an eyebrow to hear church officials and priests and what-have-you railing on about consumerism and mammon and the retail culture in the west today when in fact the RCC is a major shareholder in it and always has been. The RCC is a major shareholder in retail chains and in shopping centres in Italy alone for example and has major investments in banking corporations via bondholdings.

You will then get the goons telling you that the RCC invests wisely in order to help the poor. Has anyone ever seen a cheque from the Vatican Bank in a donation basket?

Not likely. It is one of the oldest of the western corporations and it relies heavily on the goons assuming it is spending money vaguely somewhere else that no one can see. It is in its holy hole.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
In America, to prevent having to sell-off properties/assets in order to pay abuse victims, the US Catholic Church managed to get a $400million loan from Allied Irish Bank. Isn't there an equivalent institution there?
I wouldn't mind seeing the due diligence and shareholder protection documents on that loan. You have dioceses going into Chapter 11 bankruptcy all over the states and you have an Irish taxpayer owned bank organising 400million loans to a customer with a dodgy financial profile to say the least.

I wonder how long it will be before that 400million loan becomes 'impaired' and I wonder what collateral and recourse the Allied Irish shareholders have against that day.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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The RCC is one of the oldest corporations in the west and by far one of the most parasitical in that it actually produces and sells nothing but a fictional product.
 

Kilbarry

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Sexual abuse victim re-traumatised by Catholic church compensation process

The Roman Catholic Church in Australia has money problems.

A few months ago the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse revealed that there had been nearly 4500 claims of child sexual abuse gainst that church over the past 35 years and that so far the church has paid out nearly AU$280 million in compensation.

It is perhaps because of this that some dioceses are struggling to "sustain financial viability for their pastoral works".

Now an internal document, produced last month for the 11 different Catholic education offices in the State of New South Wales has been leaked to the media; some dioceses are thinking of charging their schools rent.

Last year an internal report for New South Wales's Catholic bishops stated that by not charging rent NSW dioceses and parishes were providing a subsidy to their schools "conservatively to be estimated in the range of circa AU$19 million to AU$28 million per annum."

Furore over proposal to charge Catholic schools rent | Bega District News


Could a similar situation arise in Ireland?

There are some situations where it can be argued that the Catholic institution does not own a particular piece of land in its own right but only as the as a trustee, the beneficial owner being the local catholic community.
Indeed and this article in yesterdays Guardian (UK) explains some of the problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/08/sexual-abuse-victim-re-traumatised-by-catholic-church-compensation-process

Sexual Abuse Victim Re-Traumatised by Catholic church Compensation Process
The woman’s ‘extremely difficult’ 13-month ordeal to receive a payout adds weight to calls for an independent redress scheme, says her lawyer
........

......Therase Lawless (not her real name) was 14 when she was first approached by a teacher at her school in northern Victoria in the 1980s, who conducted a sexually abusive relationship with her from the ages of 15 to 17.

Lawless, now 50, did not acknowledge her experience as being sexual abuse until she was diagnosed with depression and post-traumatic stress disorder at 35.

“I had no idea that there was even such a notion of sexual abuse,” she said. “I was groomed by him to believe that I was a mature woman from the age of 15 … I did know that he was being horribly, horribly manipulative and abusive, and it was absolutely awful at the time, torturously awful at the time, but I believed it was my choice and I’d invited it and I was in an adult world. This was what an adult world was like.”

The man was investigated after being referred to Victoria police on the basis of Lawless’s evidence to the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse in 2014, but the investigation was shelved without charge. He is still employed as a teacher. .........


So no criminal conviction or even trial, no civil case for damages which requires a lower standard of proof, she was apparently unaware for 20 years that she had been abused AND the guy is still employed as a teacher. BUT

Lawless said she sought redress under the church’s Towards Healing scheme as the last available avenue to seek justice and a formal acknowledgement of her abuse.

So the "Towards Healing" scheme awarded her compensation but she is still deeply dissatisfied. A permanent victim then and one reason why the Church has to consider charging rent for its schools.
 
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blinding

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The RCC is one of the oldest corporations in the west and by far one of the most parasitical in that it actually produces and sells nothing but a fictional product.
Hard to argue with that .

Would there anything to be said for another mass .
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Indeed and this article in yesterdays Guardian (UK) explains some of the problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/08/sexual-abuse-victim-re-traumatised-by-catholic-church-compensation-process

Sexual Abuse Victim Re-Traumatised by Catholic church Compensation Process
The woman’s ‘extremely difficult’ 13-month ordeal to receive a payout adds weight to calls for an independent redress scheme, says her lawyer
........

......Therase Lawless (not her real name) was 14 when she was first approached by a teacher at her school in northern Victoria in the 1980s, who conducted a sexually abusive relationship with her from the ages of 15 to 17.

Lawless, now 50, did not acknowledge her experience as being sexual abuse until she was diagnosed with depression and post-traumatic stress disorder at 35.

“I had no idea that there was even such a notion of sexual abuse,” she said. “I was groomed by him to believe that I was a mature woman from the age of 15 … I did know that he was being horribly, horribly manipulative and abusive, and it was absolutely awful at the time, torturously awful at the time, but I believed it was my choice and I’d invited it and I was in an adult world. This was what an adult world was like.”

The man was investigated after being referred to Victoria police on the basis of Lawless’s evidence to the royal commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse in 2014, but the investigation was shelved without charge. He is still employed as a teacher. .........


So no criminal conviction or even trial, no civil case for damages which requires a lower standard of proof, she was apparently unaware for 20 years that she had been abused AND and the guy is still employed as a teacher. BUT

Lawless said she sought redress under the church’s Towards Healing scheme as the last available avenue to seek justice and a formal acknowledgement of her abuse.

So the "Towards Healing" scheme awarded her compensation but she is still deeply dissatisfied. A permanent victim then and one reason why the Church has to consider charging rent for its schools.
I'd agree with you about the shcking low standard of proof that's needed nowadays.

It's significant that the legal actions against the late Lord Janner were all discontinued once it became clear that his children would vigorously defend their father's good name.
 

Kilbarry

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Originally Posted by Lumpy Talbot
The RCC is one of the oldest corporations in the west and by far one of the most parasitical in that it actually produces and sells nothing but a fictional product.
Hard to argue with that .

Would there anything to be said for another mass .
...So no criminal conviction or even trial, no civil case for damages which requires a lower standard of proof, she was apparently unaware for 20 years that she had been abused AND the guy is still employed as a teacher....

And the very liberal very secular Guardian newspaper regards this woman as a "re-traumatized victim" of the Catholic Church. "When men cease to believe in God, they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything." That was G K Chesterton I think and he might have been biased. However George Orwell wrote something similar in one of his essays - that belief in organised religion might well be a safeguard against superstition!
 

Kilbarry

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I'd agree with you about the shcking low standard of proof that's needed nowadays.

It's significant that the legal actions against the late Lord Janner were all discontinued once it became clear that his children would vigorously defend their father's good name.
Yes the late Lord Janners's son Daniel is a Queen's Counsel (very senior Barrister) and had already caught out the chief accuser in an obvious lie i.e. Lord Janner had been in Australia at a time when he was accused of raping this guy. If the case had gone to court Daniel Janner would no doubt have demanded that this man be prosecuted for perjury. And if the authorities were reluctant to go that far, why Daniel Janner would probably have mounted a private prosecution himself. No better person!
 


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