Backstop Compromise or No Deal



Patslatt1

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THE SOLUTION: VERIFIABLE COMMITMENT TO SPEND BILLIONS ON MAXFAC
MaxFac, maximum facilitation, was the UK government proposal to introduce sofware systems as an alternative to the physical checks on traded goods required between the British mainland and Northern Ireland under the Border Backstop. The EU negotiators rejected MaxFac as completely unrealistic while the UK Parliament rejected the Backstop agreement accepted by the UK government.
MaxFac may not be unrealistic if the UK government were prepared to spend billions of pounds in verifiable commitments to make it a reality. Already, IBM along with Maersk which does about a fifth of global goods shipments have invited all shippers to use their software platform that eliminates paperwork in customs procedures. In addition to this type of system,MaxFac would need to spend heavily on systems of drones, sound detection,hidden cameras and mobile laboratory vans for policing Irish border goods shipments. The vans could be located at various distances from the border to avoid politically sensitive border checks. These systems might find an international market.
The UK government could balk at spending billions on MaxFac but the spending would be trivial compared to the huge economic costs of a no deal Brexit.
 

McTell

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No
OP

//

So, will it be back on the table? Is everyone desperate enough to avoid a No Deal scenario to bring it back? Can a compromise be reached, and if so, what?

//

The eu ministers get back to work in september/october.

Brexit sans deal happens at end-october.

Exactly what scenario do we have in mind?
 

cytex

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THE SOLUTION: VERIFIABLE COMMITMENT TO SPEND BILLIONS ON MAXFAC
MaxFac, maximum facilitation, was the UK government proposal to introduce sofware systems as an alternative to the physical checks on traded goods required between the British mainland and Northern Ireland under the Border Backstop. The EU negotiators rejected MaxFac as completely unrealistic while the UK Parliament rejected the Backstop agreement accepted by the UK government.
MaxFac may not be unrealistic if the UK government were prepared to spend billions of pounds in verifiable commitments to make it a reality. Already, IBM along with Maersk which does about a fifth of global goods shipments have invited all shippers to use their software platform that eliminates paperwork in customs procedures. In addition to this type of system,MaxFac would need to spend heavily on systems of drones, sound detection,hidden cameras and mobile laboratory vans for policing Irish border goods shipments. The vans could be located at various distances from the border to avoid politically sensitive border checks. These systems might find an international market.
The UK government could balk at spending billions on MaxFac but the spending would be trivial compared to the huge economic costs of a no deal Brexit.
This is unworkable as was already pointed out in another thread. It is in effect a hardborder and is completley unworkable and not something the EU or Ireland will agree too. If this is workable then all the british would need to do is sign up to the WA and implement it and a deal is done but it will not deliver a seamless border it is a hardborder.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Heh. A series of vans not quite at the border but parked at vantage points leading to it.

They could be collector's items rather quickly. Wouldn't want to be parked up in one of those border-vans in South Armagh overnight. They might let the air out of the tyres on you.
 

Pyewacket

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Heh. A series of vans not quite at the border but parked at vantage points leading to it.

They could be collector's items rather quickly. Wouldn't want to be parked up in one of those border-vans in South Armagh overnight. They might let the air out of the tyres on you.
Well in the old days, you had army checks, Provo checks and Loyalist checks, and these were not just at the line, they were inside NI too.

A lot pf people here have not one clue how seriously off things can get.
 

wombat

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A lot pf people here have not one clue how seriously off things can get.
Reminds me of my pub patriot days. Long before the internet, some kids were hooked on the christian brothers' version of history and when the "Troubles" started thought that the British presence was the source of all our problems. Had we known what damage 30 years of terror would inflict on ordinary folk, maybe we would have been less willing to taste the Kool Aid but maybe its just the young have no experience of living with the consequences of their actions. The expression " be careful what you wish for" is never more apt than when we talk about the Irish border.
 

Pyewacket

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Reminds me of my pub patriot days. Long before the internet, some kids were hooked on the christian brothers' version of history and when the "Troubles" started thought that the British presence was the source of all our problems. Had we known what damage 30 years of terror would inflict on ordinary folk, maybe we would have been less willing to taste the Kool Aid but maybe its just the young have no experience of living with the consequences of their actions. The expression " be careful what you wish for" is never more apt than when we talk about the Irish border.
The UK signed the GFA as a result of checks not working. They will never work.

Now they think they have technology which will work, only they cannot say exactly what it is.

Let us all get real clear on who is acting the maggot now.
 

wombat

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The UK signed the GFA as a result of checks not working. They will never work.

Now they think they have technology which will work, only they cannot say exactly what it is.

Let us all get real clear on who is acting the maggot now.
The problem is that Ireland is a sideshow to the Brexiters who have an irrational hatred of the EU. Johnson has done a deal with the Brexiters to gain the Tory leadership and now must deliver. The current leadership of the Tories have no memories of the trouble in the north and don't listen to the civil service advisors who were involved.
 

Pyewacket

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The problem is that Ireland is a sideshow to the Brexiters who have an irrational hatred of the EU. Johnson has done a deal with the Brexiters to gain the Tory leadership and now must deliver. The current leadership of the Tories have no memories of the trouble in the north and don't listen to the civil service advisors who were involved.
Yep, they don't understand or even try to understand.

They are just not fit for govt.
 

wombat

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Yep, they don't understand or even try to understand.

They are just not fit for govt.
Whether we like them or not is irrelevant, its a choice for the Brits and Johnson thinks his best chance for an election victory is to deliver a no deal Brexit and to blame the EU for any negative consequences. There is nothing we or our government can do but to prepare for the consequences as best we can.
 

Pyewacket

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Whether we like them or not is irrelevant, its a choice for the Brits and Johnson thinks his best chance for an election victory is to deliver a no deal Brexit and to blame the EU for any negative consequences. There is nothing we or our government can do but to prepare for the consequences as best we can.
Like? I never ask myself whether I like a politician.

Of course they are not fit for govt. Your own post shows why.
 

wombat

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Like? I never ask myself whether I like a politician.

Of course they are not fit for govt. Your own post shows why.
So what, unless you have a vote in the UK, your opinion is irrelevant.
 

Pyewacket

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So what, unless you have a vote in the UK, your opinion is irrelevant.
Well I guess you should stop posting on UK matters then. Your opinion is totally irrelevant.

Calm down, you old fart, if the UK leaves, hard , soft or sunny side over, it will affect all of us. So yes, our opinion is relevant, mate. To us.
 

wombat

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Well I guess you should stop posting on UK matters then. Your opinion is totally irrelevant.
If Brexit was a British issue, I'd agree, my only interest is how it effects us. My opinion of who the Brits choose to vote for is irrelevant.
 

shiel

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Whether we like them or not is irrelevant, its a choice for the Brits and Johnson thinks his best chance for an election victory is to deliver a no deal Brexit and to blame the EU for any negative consequences. There is nothing we or our government can do but to prepare for the consequences as best we can.
The issues involved in this Brexiteer economic war and anti-EU contempt are fundamental and should be stated.

I wrote the following shortly after the Brexit referendum. It is still relevant in the present circumstances when the economic war and the contempt for the EU and Ireland is in full flow in the London media.

'Brexiteers say that Brussels is imposing the border again.

This is not true. At the moment thanks to the treaty setting up the EU and the Good FridayAgreement there is no barring of trade or the free movement of people on that border.

It is the English who with racist intent want to put up a border to put up barriers to trade and exclude the citizens of the rest of the EU including the Irish.

Those are the people who colonised this island for nearly 800 years.

During that time they confiscated large areas of this island and planted foreigners there.

Their 'Penal Laws' forbade the native Irish their political rights, their right to property, their right to education, their right to religion.

They let a million die of hunger in a famine on this island. That would not have happened if the famine was in the home counties.

They are now insisting that the border which they imposed on this island is reinstated despite signing treaties which removed the effects of the border on trade and the free movement of people.

Brexit will have calamitous effects on this island and on the rest of Europe.

Those who scoff at these consequences for Ireland and Europe are irresponsible, brain dead racists.'

I was even more angry then but we need to stop regarding ourselves as 'irrelevant'.
 

wombat

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I was even more angry then but we need to stop regarding ourselves as 'irrelevant'.
Do you seriously think you can influence who British people vote for?
 

shiel

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Do you seriously think you can influence who British people vote for?

NO but we have to challenge their racism and their contempt on a wider scale especially in Ireland where the narrative is growing that we should grovel.
 

Racist

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NO but we have to challenge their racism and their contempt on a wider scale especially in Ireland where the narrative is growing that we should grovel.
No one is asking us to grovel, the british people voted to leave the EU so get over yourself and stop playing the victim. At the end of the day Britain is one of our biggest trading partners love them or hate them.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Yes. It is a trade risk and that is all that it is. It may be the sky and the earth for the UK but doesn't mean it has to be for Irish people.
 


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