Backstop UK /EU plan

McSlaggart

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
17,827
Unionists do not want the current EU backstop 1. The one the UK likes is considered Magical Thinking but by the EU 2. Robin Swan appears worried about a united Ireland when he should be considering the economy and Jobs. The issue currently is if Brexit is a feck up unionists will vote to keep their farms.

1
"I have been clear that the outlined “backstop” is unacceptable to unionists. And if they are serious, it should also be unacceptable to those who say they want to defend the integrity of the Belfast Agreement throughout Brexit negotiations – because such an arrangement would totally undermine the principle of consent," he said."

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/uup-leader-robin-swann-warns-brexit-cannot-be-exploited-to-achieve-a-united-ireland-36783783.html

2

"The hybrid model would mean the U.K. continuing to police its border as if it were the EU’s customs border, but then tracking imports to apply different tariffs depending on which market they end up in — U.K. or EU. Under this scenario, because Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland would share an external EU customs border, as they do now, it would remove the need for checks on the land border between the two.

The complexity and unprecedented nature of this solution has led to accusations from the Brussels side that it amounts to “magical thinking.”"

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-to-present-new-brexit-backstop-plan-on-ireland/
 


ScoobyDoo

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
923
Sounds like a pragmatic solution to protect the GFA.

Let's see how much the EU really does care about the GFA now.
 

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
53,626
People talk like the GFA is set in stone. It isnt. It has a procedure for review that was already used during previous powersharing collapses. The review allows the institutions to evolve with the times, such as when changes to the petition-of-concern came about in the Stormont House agreement.

One idea would be to outsource controls on entry to the CTA to an outside body made up of representatives of the UK and Ireland and the rest of the EU. If it would make the Unionists happy it could include representatives of the devolved assemblies. It could reassure Unionists because it would mean the UK as a whole had "regulatory alignment with the EU", rather than just NI having it.

Alternatively the UK and EU could agree to log entries of criminals into an EU-UK database similar to the Schengen Eurodac system, so that the EU and UK could verify that criminals are not abusing the CTA. There is precedent for non EU countries using Eurodac, but they are part of the EEA.
 
Last edited:

McSlaggart

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
17,827
Sounds like a pragmatic solution to protect the GFA.

Let's see how much the EU really does care about the GFA now.
I think the EU is closely wedded to the GFA as it is a rare example of a successful deal done on such a complex issue. It is a template that people may want to use in other parts of the world.
 

Dame_Enda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
53,626
I would point out that some of Norway's autonomous islands like Svalbard, Queen Maud Land, Peter I Island and Bouvet Island are opted out of the EEA while remaining part of Norway, so technically a special status for NI has some precedent.
 

Ireniall

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
8,370
Unionists do not want the current EU backstop 1. The one the UK likes is considered Magical Thinking but by the EU 2. Robin Swan appears worried about a united Ireland when he should be considering the economy and Jobs. The issue currently is if Brexit is a feck up unionists will vote to keep their farms.

1
"I have been clear that the outlined “backstop” is unacceptable to unionists. And if they are serious, it should also be unacceptable to those who say they want to defend the integrity of the Belfast Agreement throughout Brexit negotiations – because such an arrangement would totally undermine the principle of consent," he said."

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/uup-leader-robin-swann-warns-brexit-cannot-be-exploited-to-achieve-a-united-ireland-36783783.html

2

"The hybrid model would mean the U.K. continuing to police its border as if it were the EU’s customs border, but then tracking imports to apply different tariffs depending on which market they end up in — U.K. or EU. Under this scenario, because Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland would share an external EU customs border, as they do now, it would remove the need for checks on the land border between the two.

The complexity and unprecedented nature of this solution has led to accusations from the Brussels side that it amounts to “magical thinking.”"

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-to-present-new-brexit-backstop-plan-on-ireland/
Mainstream hardline Unionists remove one of the main pillars of the GFA by facilitating the campaign to leave the EU . Moderate Unionists run an underwhelming campaign against leaving the EU perhaps undermined somewhat by the attitude of some of its own members and prominent ex leaders. Unionists of both hues then complain bitterly about those nasty Nationalists undermining the very same GFA with talk of a united Ireland. Self-awareness is obviously not a strong point with them. It's increasingly difficult to take them serious yet we must.

If anything the hard ball attitude of the Irish government is producing results in a fingers crossed kind of way. The backstop is actually of little benefit to Ireland if it comes about. Its real value is in pressurising the British government into making sure it does not come about by keeping the rest of the UK in line with NI which has the effect of putting the minimum number of obstacles in the way of trade between the two islands and both parts of this island. If you can ruffle a few Unionist feathers in the process this might be seen as a bonus in the circumstances.
 

CastleRay

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
9,162
Mainstream hardline Unionists remove one of the main pillars of the GFA by facilitating the campaign to leave the EU . Moderate Unionists run an underwhelming campaign against leaving the EU perhaps undermined somewhat by the attitude of some of its own members and prominent ex leaders. Unionists of both hues then complain bitterly about those nasty Nationalists undermining the very same GFA with talk of a united Ireland. Self-awareness is obviously not a strong point with them. It's increasingly difficult to take them serious yet we must.

If anything the hard ball attitude of the Irish government is producing results in a fingers crossed kind of way. The backstop is actually of little benefit to Ireland if it comes about. Its real value is in pressurising the British government into making sure it does not come about by keeping the rest of the UK in line with NI which has the effect of putting the minimum number of obstacles in the way of trade between the two islands and both parts of this island. If you can ruffle a few Unionist feathers in the process this might be seen as a bonus in the circumstances.
The UK leaving the EU does not affect the GFA let alone “remove one of the main pillars of the GFA”. What on earth are you talking about?
 

vivabrigada

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
20,099
The UK leaving the EU does not affect the GFA let alone “remove one of the main pillars of the GFA”. What on earth are you talking about?
Err, the British border in Ireland.
 

Ireniall

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
8,370
The UK leaving the EU does not affect the GFA let alone “remove one of the main pillars of the GFA”. What on earth are you talking about?
The GFA was based on four pillars in my view. The most important was the internal NI willingness on both sides to end the belligerence. Secondly there was the goodwill of the UK to under write the whole thing both politically and financially. Thirdly there was the willingness of the south to play its part with the removal of territorial claims and the rest. But finally there was the EU which was the the general background in which all of this took place and the only thing which united all of the afore-mentioned parties to this agreement. The EU was the only way that the partition of Ireland gave Unionists the re-assurance of being still in the UK while at the same time giving Nationalists and the people of the borderlands the reality of there being no real border at all.

You can pretend not to understand all you like but that is the situation and I believe that I personally warned you before the referendum of the general consequences of this course of action and of my belief that the referendum would result in the success for the leave side. I dropped the issue in the face of unanimous P.ie Unionist rejection of my concerns and simply hoped that I might be wrong about the result and that it wouldn't matter. Well unfortunately I wasn't f**king wrong and now it very much does matter and not just on P.ie.
 
Last edited:

CastleRay

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
9,162
The GFA was based on four pillars in my view. The most important was the internal NI willingness on both sides to end the belligerence. Secondly there was the goodwill of the UK to under write the whole thing both politically and financially. Thirdly there was the willingness of the south to play its part with the removal of territorial claims and the rest. But finally there was the EU which was the the general background in which all of this took place and the only thing which united all of the afore-mentioned parties to this agreement. The EU was the only way that the partition of Ireland gave Unionists the re-assurance of being still in the UK while at the same time giving Nationalists and the people of the borderlands the reality of there being no real border at all.

You can pretend not to understand all you like but that is the situation and I believe that I personally warned you before the referendum of the general consequences of this course of action and of my belief that the referendum would result in the success for the leave side. I dropped the issue in the face of unanimous P.ie Unionist rejection of my concerns and simply hoped that I might be wrong about the result and that it wouldn't matter. Well unfortunately I wasn't f**king wrong and now it very much does matter and not just on P.ie.
Utter rubbish. The EU had nothing to do with the GFA. Leaving the EU does not affect the GFA. The GFA has three strands and none of them includes the EU. Away and read it instead of making stuff up.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
55,059
Strand 2 covers the EU.
12. Any further development of these arrangements to be by agreement in the Council and with the specific endorsement of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Oireachtas, subject to the extent of the competences and responsibility of the two Administrations.

13. It is understood that the North/South Ministerial Council and the Northern Ireland Assembly are mutually inter-dependent, and that one cannot successfully function without the other.

14. Disagreements within the Council to be addressed in the format described at paragraph 3(iii) above or in the plenary format. By agreement between the two sides, experts could be appointed to consider a particular matter and report.

15. Funding to be provided by the two Administrations on the basis that the Council and the implementation bodies constitute a necessary public function.

16. The Council to be supported by a standing joint Secretariat, staffed by members of the Northern Ireland Civil Service and the Irish Civil Service.

17. The Council to consider the European Union dimension of relevant matters, including the implementation of EU policies and programmes and proposals under consideration in the EU framework. Arrangements to be made to ensure that the views of the Council are taken into account and represented appropriately at relevant EU meetings.
 


New Threads

Most Replies

Top