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Bailout 2.0?


Howya

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Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,690
Today's Irish Times reports a new tactic in the negotiations to deal with bank debt problem

IMF deal on table if no bank debt agreement, sources say - The Irish Times - Sat, Jan 26, 2013

Government sources said Ireland is prepared to accept a new, conditional IMF programme if bank debt talks do not deliver optimal conditions for returning to markets
Seems to me that Noonan & co have finally discovered how to negotiate.

The IMF have been more supportive of debt write-off than the EU/ECB which can only be a good thing for Ireland. However, the problem remains that Kenny/Noonan keep insisting that they are not seeking any debt write-off - kicking the debt down the road does not solve the problem.

Is there a U-turn on the horizon?
 


Burnout

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Oct 7, 2009
Messages
7,272
Twitter
I have a life.
Mentioned on Marion (our fav superstar) this morning so she may discuss it after the suicide chat. Bit early in the day and whomever it is is so hard to listen to as in monotonous droll :(
 

Davidoff

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Oct 4, 2010
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1,485
The idea that Ireland was going to be economically self-sufficient by the end of the year was always complete fiction.

There will be a second bailout. There must be.

And it's for the better. Our politicians are incapable of reforming anything without the IMF cracking the whip.
 

Howya

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Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,690
The idea that Ireland was going to be economically self-sufficient by the end of the year was always complete fiction.

There will be a second bailout. There must be.

And it's for the better. Our politicians are incapable of reforming anything without the IMF cracking the whip.
And given that the underlying deficit is still running at €13bn a year, someone needs to crack a whip

 

Analyzer

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Feb 14, 2011
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46,189
Mentioned on Marion (our fav superstar) this morning so she may discuss it after the suicide chat. Bit early in the day and whomever it is is so hard to listen to as in monotonous droll :(
Made Marion, and similar wasters earning far more than they are worth is an essential part of the problem.

Is there any other insolvent corrupt institutional state propping up the likes of the Montrose Millionaires ?
 

Mad as Fish

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24,449
Today's Irish Times reports a new tactic in the negotiations to deal with bank debt problem

IMF deal on table if no bank debt agreement, sources say - The Irish Times - Sat, Jan 26, 2013



Seems to me that Noonan & co have finally discovered how to negotiate.

The IMF have been more supportive of debt write-off than the EU/ECB which can only be a good thing for Ireland. However, the problem remains that Kenny/Noonan keep insisting that they are not seeking any debt write-off - kicking the debt down the road does not solve the problem.

Is there a U-turn on the horizon?
From the article -

Taoiseach Enda Kenny left Davos yesterday confident that business and political leaders had heeded his warning that Ireland’s recovery was fragile and dependent on the coming months.


What recovery would that be then?
 

Samell

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From the article -

Taoiseach Enda Kenny left Davos yesterday confident that business and political leaders had heeded his warning that Ireland’s recovery was fragile and dependent on the coming months.


What recovery would that be then?
The recovery that is just around the corner with the new bail-out deal.
 

Mad as Fish

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The recovery that is just around the corner with the new bail-out deal.
Would that be the same as the one that has always been just around the corner after a bit of austerity and the last bailout?
 

GDPR

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Messages
223,358
whats this ''Germany caught unawares'' nonsense in the article. Sounds like an abuser who has raped the mind of a victim to believe every little or large detail must be declared. nonsense.
 

Spanner Island

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Feb 22, 2011
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24,199
The idea that Ireland was going to be economically self-sufficient by the end of the year was always complete fiction.

There will be a second bailout. There must be.

And it's for the better. Our politicians are incapable of reforming anything without the IMF cracking the whip.
Yeah - they've been living in cloud cuckoo land on this for a long long time now...

They're either dumb or deceitful... neither of which is a good thing for voters...

Personally I hope a second bailout is required because as soon as we extricate ourselves from various programmes our d!ckhead politicians will be back to their old ways of borrowing us into penury, promising all sorts and inevitably failing to deliver...

Remember Transport 21?

How many times did Bertie A'hole Ahern announce that bullsh!t with many of the various components presented as something brand new with every announcement and despite us all being wise to it..?

Tedious and patronising stuff... which sadly the current government has continued to insult us with...
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Of course we need bailout 2, who could the government blame for the terrible way they are inflicting austerity on the poorest and most vulnerable?

"The nasty IMF man made us do it, what's that? No he didn't mention anything about our huge salaries and pensions!. Quango anyone?"
Indeed - and how else would they manage to run a €10bn deficit to maintain their standard of living and call it "public service". Our government have NO interest in balancing the books - it's too difficult and can be left to some later misfortunate cabinet who finally run out of lenders and have to begin to sell the family silver. Our finances are like a big game of pass the parcel currently - when the music stops and the lenders want paying there will be REAL austerity.
 

Shpake

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Oct 17, 2012
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5,350
Well at least Enda is thinking about a plan B... or he is trying to make it palletable to us.
If he can convince the Finns Austrians Netherlands and Germans to play the role of sugar-daddy, well he'd better position himself first in the queue as Cyprus is edging up tryin to steal our 'trick'. After that comes Slo- wherever it is, slovakia or slovenia.
Mind you we've got class though. Such high-paid panhandlers you don't meet every day in the EU. It's sure to dazzle them.
 

H.R. Haldeman

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The subtext here is that the bank debt is the key element in bringing about, in Eamon Gilmore's words, a “post-crisis Ireland”.

But boy oh boy, people are going to get some shock when we get €50b of bank debt sorted out and it makes almost no difference to our fiscal or budgetary situation.

I admire the people of Ballyhea for doing something about their perception of the problem. But their perception of the problem is wrong. First, because we've had almost no austerity, so protesting about it is misguided. And second, because any austerity we have had has been related to the deficit, and has been almost nothing to do with bondholders. Yes, if we don't get a deal on bank debt then in the longer term we'd be in even bigger trouble, but to think the problems they have in Ballyhea in January 2013 are a single thing to do with bondholders is almost entirely wrong.
 

Ribeye

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Deirmuid O'Flynn from Ballyhae is currently shredding Moan Burton and Alien Ahern on the Airhead Hour on Rte,

Great stuff:)
 

GDPR

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Messages
223,358
The subtext here is that the bank debt is the key element in bringing about, in Eamon Gilmore's words, a “post-crisis Ireland”.

But boy oh boy, people are going to get some shock when we get €50b of bank debt sorted out and it makes almost no difference to our fiscal or budgetary situation.

I admire the people of Ballyhea for doing something about their perception of the problem. But their perception of the problem is wrong. First, because we've had almost no austerity, so protesting about it is misguided. And second, because any austerity we have had has been related to the deficit, and has been almost nothing to do with bondholders. Yes, if we don't get a deal on bank debt then in the longer term we'd be in even bigger trouble, but to think the problems they have in Ballyhea in January 2013 are a single thing to do with bondholders is almost entirely wrong.
True as that is, it is not what FG and Labour spent every waking moment telling people between 2008 and 2011, so no surprise really that some, if not a majority, still believe it now.

If you have any doubts about that, ask Pat Rabbitte, he knows all about negative press and lies and how effective politically they can be.
 

H.R. Haldeman

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True as that is, it is not what FG and Labour spent every waking moment telling people between 2008 and 2011, so no surprise really that some, if not a majority, still believe it now.

I totally agree with that tonic - the government's failure to communicate the difference between the deficit and the debt (banking or otherwise) has been their greatest PR failing. I daresay it has been in their interest to do so also, and they might yet pay a price for that when people realise we're only half way through our budgetary adjustments (with the hard half to come).

I would also heap oodles of blame for these misconceptions onto SF and the left, who've basically spent the whole time blaming evil bondholders for all our problems. I know it makes them feel warm inside to think it's faceless global capitalism that's the problem, but that don't make it so.
 

bob3367

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Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
8,083
Today's Irish Times reports a new tactic in the negotiations to deal with bank debt problem

IMF deal on table if no bank debt agreement, sources say - The Irish Times - Sat, Jan 26, 2013



Seems to me that Noonan & co have finally discovered how to negotiate.

The IMF have been more supportive of debt write-off than the EU/ECB which can only be a good thing for Ireland. However, the problem remains that Kenny/Noonan keep insisting that they are not seeking any debt write-off - kicking the debt down the road does not solve the problem.

Is there a U-turn on the horizon?
I thought that this was always the case.
 

Clanrickard

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Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,992
The subtext here is that the bank debt is the key element in bringing about, in Eamon Gilmore's words, a “post-crisis Ireland”.

But boy oh boy, people are going to get some shock when we get €50b of bank debt sorted out and it makes almost no difference to our fiscal or budgetary situation.

I admire the people of Ballyhea for doing something about their perception of the problem. But their perception of the problem is wrong. First, because we've had almost no austerity, so protesting about it is misguided. And second, because any austerity we have had has been related to the deficit, and has been almost nothing to do with bondholders. Yes, if we don't get a deal on bank debt then in the longer term we'd be in even bigger trouble, but to think the problems they have in Ballyhea in January 2013 are a single thing to do with bondholders is almost entirely wrong.
I totally agree with that tonic - the government's failure to communicate the difference between the deficit and the debt (banking or otherwise) has been their greatest PR failing. I daresay it has been in their interest to do so also, and they might yet pay a price for that when people realise we're only half way through our budgetary adjustments (with the hard half to come).

I would also heap oodles of blame for these misconceptions onto SF and the left, who've basically spent the whole time blaming evil bondholders for all our problems. I know it makes them feel warm inside to think it's faceless global capitalism that's the problem, but that don't make it so.
Two excellent posts that should be required reading.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,731
I totally agree with that tonic - the government's failure to communicate the difference between the deficit and the debt (banking or otherwise) has been their greatest PR failing. I daresay it has been in their interest to do so also, and they might yet pay a price for that when people realise we're only half way through our budgetary adjustments (with the hard half to come).

I would also heap oodles of blame for these misconceptions onto SF and the left, who've basically spent the whole time blaming evil bondholders for all our problems. I know it makes them feel warm inside to think it's faceless global capitalism that's the problem, but that don't make it so.
I think FG/Lab would see that as one of their greatest successes. They can still blame FF for the bank bailout, but after nearly 2 full years in government their continued inaction in relation to tackling the actual current deficit is unforgivable, but they've spun it like it's all the same problem - nothing they can do and certainly NOOOOO point in reducing public spending....look - a squirrel.
 

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